Here's a couple of questions for you

[Pompeyfan]

i've been watching class 73 Vids on youtube a bit lately... and it got me thinking, if a new loco with a medium power diesel Engine and 3rd rail pick up was to be developed, would it be of any serious use to anybody but engineering trains, the only thing i can think of would be the Waterloo - Exeter service?

and, why did the SWT class 170 Fail, why was it regarded as a failure?

... do carry on

[arabiandisco]

Once the 73s do eventually give up, their work on engineering trains will be done by diesel only locos, and their "thunderbird" jobs will be done by other MUs.

A medium power diesel/ 25kV loco would probably be a more likely beast to actually come along, as that kind of machine would actually have some uses (On loco taking trains from Crewe - Felixstowe, and that kind of thing).

The best hybrid solution for the Waterloo - Exeter line would probably be electify to Salisbury, and reprise the old REP/TC type deal for the trains to Exeter.

Re the 170 - I haven't a clue why it failed, but trains can be failed for anything, from a lack of winscreen washer fluid to a con-rod flying sideways through the crank-case...

[bgstrowger]

In reverse order, SWT's 170s were exchanged with 158s to provide a homogenous diesel fleet for SWT, whilst providing newer rolling stock for TPE (given that TPE couldn't operate 185s to certain destinations because of their weight). That and the lack of gangways when operating with the 159s making revenue protection difficult and lack of Selective Door Operation.

A new electro-diesel class would be ideal for freight workings though, there'd be true flexibility there. The downside would be complication and weight. To provide a decent haulage capacity, you'd need a big diesel engine which would be rather weighty. Add in a transformer/rectifier for OLHE and 3rd rail and you're talking massive axle loads.

[Pompeyfan]

that is a good point, so surely the new 172s could be suitable for SWT? they have all of those specified, and i meant failed as in the idea, not an individual service

[bgstrowger]

Why bother adding more units unless they're of the same design? Salisbury depot have got the best equipment for maintaining the 158/159 fleet they have and get the best MPC of that design as it was purpose built.

What's happened with FGW getting some 172s for Portsmouth-Cardiff though?

[Pompeyfan]

Why bother adding more units unless they're of the same design? Salisbury depot have got the best equipment for maintaining the 158/159 fleet they have and get the best MPC of that design as it was purpose built.

What's happened with FGW getting some 172s for Portsmouth-Cardiff though?

i'm not suggesting they get the trains, i realise SWT has the best DMU fleet in the country (hard to argue) it was just tongue in cheek speculation, however i also heard about FGW getting 172, but nothing more has been mentioned, don't even think an order was submitted? it was just speculation, the trains need to be minimum 4 cars on this route, they could run them as 6 cars and use the intelligent SDO that both Southern and Southeastern use on their Electrostars for the shorter platforms, such as warminster etc?

[bgstrowger]

Why bother adding more units unless they're of the same design? Salisbury depot have got the best equipment for maintaining the 158/159 fleet they have and get the best MPC of that design as it was purpose built.

What's happened with FGW getting some 172s for Portsmouth-Cardiff though?

i'm not suggesting they get the trains, i realise SWT has the best DMU fleet in the country (hard to argue) it was just tongue in cheek speculation, however i also heard about FGW getting 172, but nothing more has been mentioned, don't even think an order was submitted? it was just speculation, the trains need to be minimum 4 cars on this route, they could run them as 6 cars and use the intelligent SDO that both Southern and Southeastern use on their Electrostars for the shorter platforms, such as warminster etc?

I think any longer than 4 cars and you may as well run LCHS. From what I've read, FGW did put a bid in, but it's been swallowed up in the 1,300.

[Pompeyfan]

Why bother adding more units unless they're of the same design? Salisbury depot have got the best equipment for maintaining the 158/159 fleet they have and get the best MPC of that design as it was purpose built.

What's happened with FGW getting some 172s for Portsmouth-Cardiff though?

i'm not suggesting they get the trains, i realise SWT has the best DMU fleet in the country (hard to argue) it was just tongue in cheek speculation, however i also heard about FGW getting 172, but nothing more has been mentioned, don't even think an order was submitted? it was just speculation, the trains need to be minimum 4 cars on this route, they could run them as 6 cars and use the intelligent SDO that both Southern and Southeastern use on their Electrostars for the shorter platforms, such as warminster etc?

I think any longer than 4 cars and you may as well run LCHS. From what I've read, FGW did put a bid in, but it's been swallowed up in the 1,300.

i was thinking along the lines of 2x3 car, rather then one lone 6 car unit.

[bgstrowger]

I think what would be quite good for that line is something along the lines of the Irish 22000 class.

[spartacus]

Slight correction on the TPE issue. 185s are cleared for all of TPE's current routes. The weight issue is that on at least two of the East Coast routes, Hull and Scarborough, they are not permitted to run at sprinter speed due to their weight, and are thus slower than the 158s which they replaced. Although the difference to Hull is less than to Scarborough, I can only assume the 170s are used almost entirely on Hull services as Scarborough services have a convenient 185 depot at York.

[AlistairW]

The FGW DMU order, which doesn't have to be 172's, is part of a new order for 202 DMU carriages of which Northern, FGW and TPE will benefit. As nobody wants to buy diesel trains a new ROSCO has been set up by the government and is called Diesel Trains Ltd, with the idea it can be sold after the credit crunch.

As for when the preferred bidder will be announced I don't know I think CSR (China), CAF and Bombarider as far as I know.

[bgstrowger]

The FGW DMU order, which doesn't have to be 172's, is part of a new order for 202 DMU carriages of which Northern, FGW and TPE will benefit. As nobody wants to buy diesel trains a new ROSCO has been set up by the government and is called Diesel Trains Ltd, with the idea it can be sold after the credit crunch.

As for when the preferred bidder will be announced I don't know I think CSR (China), CAF and Bombarider as far as I know.

I think the chaps who built the Irish 22000 class are bidding as well.

[AlistairW]

Ah, that would be Hyundai Rotem as well then. Personally I'd like to see the order go to Bombardier purely for the fact that they'd be made in Britain and it'd help keep some of the countries train fleets compatible. Would not be happy to see it go to China!

[bgstrowger]

Ah, that would be Hyundai Rotem as well then. Personally I'd like to see the order go to Bombardier purely for the fact that they'd be made in Britain and it'd help keep some of the countries train fleets compatible. Would not be happy to see it go to China!

Having some compatibility would make more sense. Like giving the IEP order to a manufacturer who have experience with "bio-mode" trains. Or awarding an order of new EMUs to a firm where their units already operate and don't need a whole new maintenance infrastructure to support them.

[energize]

With regards to why SWT gave up its 170s. In 2006 I did a fortnight's work experience with South West Trains and found out that one reason why SWT wanted to get rid of them was because they were difficult to maintain. Apparently, when they suffer a major mechanical fault, new engines have to be ordered from Germany, which means the whole unit is out of action for a long time. Spare engines cannot be easily stored too since the whole engine module takes up 3/4 length of the coach. Which is a shame, since the 170s have a lot more cycle space than the 158s.

I once suggested that the 180s should be used on Cardiff-Portsmouth services since: they're 5 cars long, and they have a proper buffet (I've seen two car 158s on Cardiff-Brighton services get ridiculously overcrowded, and at Romsey station the train announcements all too readily proclaim: "This train has no catering facilities" even on three hour runs to Cardiff). However, this was apparently deemed too expensive since they'd attract higher track charges, which is a pretty :bad-words: disingenuous argument from FGW :bad-words: . I've only been on two 180s but I have to say they're a lot more comfortable than 158s.