Double heading with double Fairlies - problem

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:36 am

Last night I was doing a train length and loco power test on my new route up a 1 in 50 gradient and noticed that the double Fairlie models seem to have problems doubled headed.

When at rest the rear buffer beam of the pilot loco merged with the front beam of the train engine, and the train engine rear buffer beam merged with the front of the leading coach (at least embedding the whole of the chopper coupling into the engine).

When I started driving I got broken couplers with a few seconds, whichever engine was in front and even after setting coupling break strengths up to nuclear levels (1e9N).

This was with Eom2 and Meriddin Emrys (1879 version) and the Fr bogie coach that is green w/o verandahs and the pale grey roof with three vents (forget the number).

Taking out one of the locos cured the problems, couplings correctly positioned at rest, no broken couplings, etc.

You may want to take a look Kevin but it's not imperative since I found the power of one Fairlie was enough to haul the train up the 1 in 50 so double heading won't be needed on my route.

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 1:30 pm

I regularly put coupling break values to 3.2 or 5.1 and they never break

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:49 pm

John, it's the second value after the 'e' that counts - this is the force multiplyer to the power of 10. So 5.1e6N is nearly 10 times weaker than 2e7N.

Last night I had them up to something like 7e8N which are the kind of forces that hold our sun together and they pulled apart like skin off custard... I think it is to do with the second invisible eng file Kevin has made which is there to produce the second set of chimney smoke. I suspect the main eng file (with the model) is pulling apart from the invisible (2nd smoke position) eng file, i.e. the double fairlie is breaking in the middle.

kevmt · Post by **kevmt** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:58 pm

Martin,
Can you check your .eng files on the fairlies in question to see if they have bar couplings between the main and "invisible" engine.

Kevin

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 3:19 pm

Will check tonight but have not touched the eng files since download except to up the coupling strength, have you released updated versions?

pitleyfalley · Post by **pitleyfalley** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 5:50 pm

Does the same happen if you turn the Doubel Fairle round aswell ie:

fairlie end , fairlie, fairlie end, fairle, coach

and then also with:

fairlie, fairlie end, fairlie, fairlie end, coach

and even:

fairlie, fairlie end, fairlie end, fairlie, coach

If it is the end files it will work without them aswell, ie with one fairlie and no smoke from one chimmeny, if with two engines and no end files it still happens it is the engines at fault.....

Christian

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 6:57 pm

The advice given after many coupling breaks was to up the first value from 1.1e7N to 5.1e7N but most people have settled on 3.2e7N.

I don't know but I would assume all vehicles in the consist should have the same values.

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 10:14 pm

johndibben wrote:The advice given after many coupling breaks was to up the first value from 1.1e7N to 5.1e7N but most people have settled on 3.2e7N.

I don't understand the maths John, but speak to Martin Heywood about it. Being an engineer he knows about forces and such like and he increases the second value! Ref all stock on the MidEast CD.

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:00 pm

Nor do I but the loco's and stock I work with are OK with this method which I have to admit I copied from other files of the same type

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:26 am

LoL

Me = blind, you = blind ... "Here take my hand, I'll lead..."

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:03 pm

They'll talk

buster1961 · Post by **buster1961** » Mon Jan 06, 2003 4:52 pm

You can read the the number after the 'e' as 'multiply by ten this number of times'

5.1e6N
becomes
5100000N or 5.1 MegaNewtons

2e7N
becomes
20000000N or 20 MegaNewtons

a factor of 4 greater for the smaller looking number...

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Tue Jan 07, 2003 9:02 am

Thanks Buster - this reminds me that I never got around to doing the break tests Pitleyfalley suggested, and checking for bar couplings.