In Rememberance

[CaptainBazza]

• ++++++++++To the Fallen, of All Countries++++++++++
  +++++++++++++++LEST WE FORGET+++++++++++++++++++++
  At the 11th Minute, of the 11th Hour, of the 11th Month!
  ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
  
  They shall not grow old as we who are left grow old.
  Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
  At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
  WE WILL REMEMBER THEM.

[CaptainBazza]

We will remember them.

[Pompeyfan]

i love that poem., puts a lot of things into perspective, for example, this credit crunch, i bet the war put a far greater pressure on the country, and what did they do to beat it. they went out and enjoyed life, they weren't greedy but they always kept a smile on their faces.

i usually hate to be associated to being british ( i regard myself as english) however, the british bulldog spirit is the way forward, i don't know where its gone. but i'm sure if enough people try and motivate we can actually re-unite and pull through...

[jbilton]

Strangely in the UK we have the 2 Min's silence at 11am.


Cheers
Jon

[CaptainBazza]

If the ode is read, or spoken aloud, after the last line "We will remember them," the response from other persons present is to repeat, as an affirmation, the last line, "We will remember them."

A distant relative*, as I found out recently from a family tree research exercise, died in the UK of wounds received at Gallipoli. An uncle may have also died in the 20s of wounds received, but I have no confirmation of the cause of death at this time. My research showed they both appeared to have signed up together, I believe they were cousins....

Cheers Bazza

[jbilton]

Hi
I can trace ancestors that died at Balaclava ...... and possible Waterloo (certainly that campaign)
Cheers
Jon

[CaptainBazza]

Dad was in the LRDG in the desert until being wounded and invalided home around 1941. He rarely talked about the battles, but did talk a lot about things they did in their spare time, or on leave in Cairo. His 'war wound' certainly played up well until his late fifties/sixties. British Red Caps were hated by the Kiwis and were considered fair game. I think there were long memories of things that happened in WW1.

Monty was once overheard complaining to General Freyberg (Senior NZA officer in Egypt) at the time) that the Kiwis never saluted. To which Freyberg replied, "Well, if you wave to them nicely, they'll wave back."

Cheers Bazza

[jbilton]

My Grandad

http://www.ww2awards.com:80/person/38957

Although I prefer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stor ... 9713.shtml

"OUT OF BOUNDS

I’ve fought beneath the scorching sun, on sandy battlegrounds
Though many times a town is won, it’s always OUT OF BOUNDS
Though N.C.O’s and privates too, lay dead neath sandy moulds
The only place and it is true, that’s never OUT OF BOUNDS
Every rank in battle dress, to sergeant-major’s crowns
Never use each other’s mess, because it’s OUT OF BOUNDS
And when in town on well earned leave, to spend your hard won pounds
Unless you’ve tapes upon your sleeves, the best shows OUT OF BOUNDS
I fight for Britain and her cause, on democratic grounds
But sad to say it’s here I pause, for England’s OUT OF BOUNDS
Each and all a mother’s son, that fights till victory sounds
Grant the same to one and all, and banish OUT OF BOUNDS"

So it may appear I have socialism in my blood.



Cheers
Jon

[dkightley]

Rememberance is not about politics, or about religion, or about patriotism, or about promoting our armed service, or justifying armed conflict, or even raising money to help the families of those who are no longer with us.

Rememberance Its about simply one thing.........remembering those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice in the service of their country and more importantly in the service of the people of their country.

With mixed feelings, I have to confess I have not served in the armed forces, and therefore have never been exposed to military conflict of any type. Consequently, I'm unable to comprehend how it feels to be in the heat of battle and have the reality of death staring me in the face. My father did during WW2, and there were many things that he went through that he did not want to talk about....until he knew he was dying, and he felt he had to pass them on. My grandfather also sufferred during WW1; he lost an eye in battle.

And every year at 11:00 am on the 11th November I will remember how they sufferred, and I will remember all of those who gave their lives for their country and the people of their country. I will sacrifice 120 seconds of my time each year to honour the sacifices they made.

At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM.

[johndibben]

I respect those who wish to remember in the manner it was intended and observed for many years.

I like Jon's poem as it sums up my father's experiences.

He joined as a private, was briefly promoted, told he couldn't eat with his mates, demoted himself and left as a private. He was one of the last off the beach at Dunkirk and served throughout the war including the Battle of Kohima. He has all the medals which he says were handed out for 'setting foot' in countries but has never worn them to my knowledge. I naturally respect him for his service but also for his modesty. There were many more like him. Despite a few difficulties readjusting to normal life, he moved on providing for my mother and my brother and eventually myself

He brushed aside all talk of the war for years and only told my brother and myself of events when we were adults, much of that only after prompting to do so. Post-War Britain was like that. It was a time to move on while remembering the past. His accounts of those that didn't return were often too graphic to post here. That said, there was humour and adventure for these young men. I was actually more surprised by the amount of humour and normailty in what I'd imagined to be far worse. I'd imagined six years of almost continuous fighting. The truth was of fierce fighting but sickness claimed more lives in Asia and that was equally appalling. He suffered from illness but survived unscathed. Many of his friends didn't and they live on in his memory. They can only live on in mine as unknown figures. This remoteness makes remembering difficult except as a collective sacrifice.

My grandfather worked for the L&NWR at Wolverton Works and went to France to work on the railways. He would talk about the places he visited such as Ypres or 'wipers' like many French place names the British soldiers renamed He never spoke about the war to my recollection but I was very young.

I'd like, on my father's behalf, to pay tribute to all those in Britain who died. He says 'At least I had a gun, could see the enemy and could fight back'.

One reason those who returned may not speak is that there was often a real resentment by those that lost family of those that didn't. The question was asked, 'You fought together, why did my son die and yours come home?' It's bad enough to have seen their sons killed but to be made to feel guilty for returning could prevent them readjusting.

I've learned war is an appalling act which brings out the best and worst in people, is nothing like what's taught, it's effects are far wider than imagined by most and very easily portrayed incorrectly which then causes more wars.

Old soldiers who fought know this.

We now live in a world which cannot cope with the carnage those in the past saw with every generation and believe this prevents such wars in Europe from ever happening again and so I remember the past but look forward to the future.

[rufuskins]

We now live in a world which cannot cope with the carnage those in the past saw with every generation and believe this prevents such wars in Europe from ever happening again and so I remember the past but look forward to the future.

If only - let's remember the Balkans! The rumours are that Bosnia could yet flare up again. Anf of course those soldiers being withdrawn from Iraq will soon be in Afghanistan.

Having reached the grand old age of 60 my cynicism grows apace.

My grandfather died in the 1st World War - as a stoker on the destroyer HMS Aboukir torpedoed in the North sea in 1914 together with Cressy and Hogue. That event changed the rules about stopping to help torpedoed vessels!

But I will always remember that the fallen died so that I can enjoy a degree of freedom. I wear my poppy with pride, and to show I care.

Ruf

[johndibben]

The greatest tribute those who fought and died can receive is that the same mistakes arn't repeated.

We can accept war as inevitable and simply keep on remembering in what some would see as a continuous struggle.

It's a valid point given history but I've never heard of anyone volunteering to fight only to win peace for a while.

The world will never improve if we don't remember the past and have hope for the future.

[Garthion]

I stopped working for two minutes yesterday, remembrance Sunday, and will do so again tomorrow the actual anniversary of the signing of the Armistice. My boss knows I'll be doing this, as I have done every year for at least the last 20 years, though yesterday there were only 2 of us who did stop, this won't make me change. The members of the armed forces through out the world have lost their lives in wars too many to count so that we may have our freedom and maybe one day peace, we should "all" remember them and hold them in high respect, and I will.

We shall remember them!

[jbilton]

Hi
I agree with John

"I respect those who wish to remember in the manner it was intended and observed for many years".

What I can't stand is all the hypocrisy and piousness ...... although all this flag waving appeals to those types I suppose.

I'm much happier attending memorial services for those killed during daily working life, often in the cause of making bosses more money.
I was pleased and honoured to be invited to attend the dedication of a stained glass Window to the fallen worker last year.

Cheers
Jon

PS My spell checker is not allowng Rememberance.

[johndibben]

In no way do I mean this to be disrespectful to those that fought and died but was struck by a couple of issues while watching two lads of 14 and 17 on BBC News 24 who knew nothing of WWI and why people were wearing poppies. They didn't know their great, great grandfather (I think that's right?), died in WWI and were introduced to his daughter and their great grandmother! An appalling indictment of families and schools to respect family and British traditions.

A problem is likely to occur when, as youngsters do, they question why millions died in WWI, for the freedoms they enjoy and again in WWII which is a far more popular subject, if only in PC and console games?

If it's true that the sacrifice made a difference then why the subsequent war? It won't make sense.

On the other hand, I know only too well that any inference that those who fought in WWI did so in vain or unneccessarily in WWII, will cause offence to those that fought and survived and the relatives of those who did not.

The two notions are mutually exlcusive.

It doesn't make sense that millions die to make 'some' difference when 100 deaths are more than can be borne today without serious questions being, rightly, asked of government.

It's not for us to place guilt upon the youth of today but to teach them their history with clarity and without contradiction. The people that say the young should be made to visit concentration camps and made to visit war memorials, which I've seen and heard on TV, to learn our version of history, merely want to reinforce their view of history. The Germans commemorated Kristallnacht on the same day. Neither commemorated each others celebrations in the same manner. Commemoration has become political whether we like it or not but we can still remember, in whatever way we choose, whenever we want or feel we should, to give the sacrifice some meaning.