Crawling AI Trains.

[mauried]

Having problems with AI trains crawling along the tracks at about 1 MPH.
Track speed limit is 70 MPH and the AI trains have drivers and a timetabled route.
Seems to happen after the AI train has stopped at a station before which it was travelling
at normal speeds.
Anyone seen this problem before.
Thanks

[CaptScarlet]

Yes it's a known intermittent bug that we hope will be fixed in the mk2 upgrade which we all hope will be released soon.

John

[dx5517]

Yes it's a known intermittent bug that we hope will be fixed in the mk2 upgrade which we all hope will be released soon.

John

"which we all hope will be released soon" This sums it all up I guess. I logon here every evening (NZ time) around this time to see what else has been uploaded for KRS. It all seems to have reduced to a trickle somehow. I know RSDL has put out the Class 08 and Class 66 add-ons and the IOW route, plus others, but what I'm really hoping for is the Mk2 upgrade, and the possibility of working level crossings. I just don't feel good about the crossings supplied with KRS - non-stopping road vehicles and non-operative barrier arms ( of which we all know about the sad lack of by now). This is really all I want to see in my routes at the moment. Not one has a level crossing in it, because it looks silly with cars that zoom straight through them, and through immovable barrier arms too, without any crunch of metal and glass... No, I'm not expecting too much am I ?

The upgrade is eagerly awaited, and we all hope it arrives soon. And hoping the word "soon" isn't akin to the interpretation as being roughly 6 months time ! Yes, RSDL wants to ensure everything is working well before releasing the upgrade I'm sure, but for most of us, it can't come soon enough. When I ran TRS2004 and waited for all those upgrades, it eventually became very stable and was a good product indeed. TRS2006 was good too, but the level crossing problems began to occur with the beautiful Queensland Rail and WestRail crossings that looked and acted totally prototypical (in my opinion) in TRS2004, but worked in reverse in TRS2006. It's been a long time now since TRS2006 came out, and I've seen some banter about getting scripts changed for some of these crossings, but have lost track of the progress.

Does anyone happen to know if there's anywhere one can obtain the crossings with upgraded scripts, that is, if they're indeed out now ? I'd be most grateful to hear from someone in a positive vein. And it'd be far too much to expect that someone would be able to inform me of how much longer it's going to be until the KRS Mk2 upgrade is out ? Waste of time just asking I guess, but again, lets hope it's soon, as I'm begining to think folks are starting to lose interest in KRS, vis the real slowdown in output of rail vehicles and other stuff by 3rd-party modellers, with the long wait for this upgrade to appear. I just hope I'm wrong here.

Regards...

Jim McDermott

[RSAdam]

Hiya,

Stalled AI is not fixed in Upgrade Mk2. Dispatcher fixes are still being finalised.

Functional Level Crossings will not be supplied in Upgrade Mk2 either. However it is actually possible to implement them already.

Here are my thoughts on how to make a functional level crossing. Bear in mind that this idea is about creating NEW assets and not converting or modifying the scenery items included with Rail Simulator.

Lets look at a simple semaphore signal:

1. It consists of an animating arm that is triggered by the passage of the train (forget about when it should react, as for this example it is irrelevant).
2. This trigger in the signals script is called OnConsistPass
3. This trigger has several parameters:
   • prevFrontDist - Distance from the front of the consist to the signal, in the previous frame
   • prevBackDist - Distance from the back of the consist to the signal, in the previous frame
   • frontDist - Current distance from the front of the consist to the signal
   • backDist - Current distance from the back of the consist to the signal
   • linkIndex - The number of the link being passed
4. Now by comparing the distance values between the current and previous frames, the signal can decide what direction the train is moving, and by comparing the movement of front and back distances, it can decide if the train is moving forwards, or reversing.

Lets now apply this to a Level Crossing:

1. It consists of animating arms that need to be triggered by the passage of the train
2. This animation can be triggered by using a lua script with the function OnConsistPass in it.
3. So if we build the level crossing model as one piece and set it up as a signal, we can give it a lua script with the OnConsistPass function and then use the data produced by this function to combine it with triggering the gate arms to close when the train is approaching.
4. This would be done via the Update function.
   • For a signal, depending on the link being passed, we want different stuff to happen, so alot of clever script is used to decide what to do when X ink is passed. However with a Level Crossing, all we need to know is, is a link being passed by a train and in what direction.
   • If the train is approaching, close the gates, if its train is leaving, open the gates.

Now you have a functional level crossing that reacts to the trains passing. The only thing it leaves is the cars stopping at the gates. This sadly is something only we at RSDL can fix - Road Traffic code.

Remember though, that the concept posted above, could be applied to draw bridges or even Locomotive Depot doors. One link either side of the door, one to trigger it to open on approach and one to close it when the train has passed.

The underlining point in this response is that Rail Simulator can do alot of things, yet some dont want to believe it can. RSDL recognise that there is still alot to explain about the features, functionality and possibilities of Rail Simulator, but I hope you understand that we cannot do everything for everyone, and what we can do, does not always appear the moment it is asked for.

There are going to be times that when you want something that is not available, you might have to get involved and do it between yourselves. Sometimes with Rail Simulator, it just takes a little thinking outside the box....

[tads1970]

Well i'm sure Adam's post will please allot of people,others it will disappoint,even if the signaling is fixed,youv'e still got the stalling AI.Back to TRS i guess.

[RailX]

man, i can't read it anymore. wherever you look always the same negative comments. we know that the RS simulation
has some problems with the AI and the signalling, but im sure that they will be fixed, i hope it. when the other simulatiors
like TRS or MSTS came out, they also had a lot of bugs. and still they had some bugs i understand that maybe
someone is frustrated and go back to TRS or MSTS, but to post always the same frustrating comments is not really helpfull.
the other simulators are 7-8 year old and of course they had a lot of experience and when you look at the RS? is not
fully 1 year old. please be patient and give the RS a chance. wait and see what will happen with the MK 2 update.
maybe the RS has no future, also no problem for me, then i can look back and say that i had a lot of fun with the RS.
but i'm sure that the RS has a future! and who can guarantee us that when the MSTS 2 or TRS 2009 come out that
they dont have bugs? they always had bugs. i play TRS for 3 years, and i know how frustrated sometimes it can be. take it easy friends
i think the RS team work hard to fix the bugs. this is my opinion. lets see what the MK 2 update will bring us.

sorry for my english

[Acorncomputer]

Hi

The way I use to stop vehicles from crashing through Level Crossings is to insert a section of road with no vehicles near to the crossing. I then place a few stationery vehicles at the gates waiting for the train to pass. It all looks perfectly OK from the loco and passenger views.

It is true that travelling vehicles will suddenly disappear near to the gates before reaching the stationery vehicles, but I think we can live with that.

[scefhwil]

man, i can't read it anymore. wherever you look always the same negative comments.

One simple reason for that is that a negative comment is far more likely to provoke a useful comment from RSDL than a positive one would. Would Adam have come clean about what is/isn't in MK2 "Upgrade" or bothered to explain a solution to animating crossings if all the original poster has said was how great the level crossing in RS were and how he didn't mind waiting months for the next patch? Same goes for many other useful nuggets of info that RS have posted. RS have made their own bed and have to lie in it.

[CaptScarlet]

Hiya,

Stalled AI is not fixed in Upgrade Mk2. Dispatcher fixes are still being finalised.

Adam, are you saying that it still might be fixed for inclusion in MK2 but you just cant confirm it yet or is it definite it wont make it ?

John

[boleyd]

From the RSADAM post at least two items remain on the "to-do list". The flag that is raised is - how many bugs/complaints/desires are not being addressed by the next patch? Herein lies the danger of not providing the content of the patch to the customers. It allows the customers to set expectations. The proper way is to manage the customer's expectations. Each customer develops their own expectation of what will be fixed. These are based on blind-hope/faith. Given the individual needs that each is hoping for I wonder if the patch may cause so much "concern" that its value will be lost in the customer commentary.

If it were my decision I would quickly release the items that will be part of the patch ASAP. It is better to take the heat NOW rather than add the customer's negative reactions on top of the expected usual messages seeking help on the new functions that the patch does offer. In other words why make your job harder by combining bitching on top of normal patch questions?

Finally releasing grand do-all patches is a mistake. We do not have any idea of the scope of the patch so it may not fall into this category. If it does it is a strategic mistake. RSDL has a very limited customer support operation which wears more than one hat. If they release frequent, but small, fixes/enhancements managing a concise set of new circumstances is much easier than sorting out a patch that hits dozens of areas.

So, as soon as possible please provide a list of significant recognized and reasonable customer complaints. Then note which of these WILL be in the patch. This stops random speculation and RSDL regains control of the situation. You do not have to set a date. The list can be updated if circumstances change. At least you do not have a customer base running rampant expecting their pet problems to be fixed only to find on patch day nothing was done.

[phat2003uk]

Hiya,

Stalled AI is not fixed in Upgrade Mk2. Dispatcher fixes are still being finalised.

Adam, are you saying that it still might be fixed for inclusion in MK2 but you just cant confirm it yet or is it definite it wont make it ?

John

The way I read it was that Stalled AI is definitely not fixed but some aspects of the dispatcher will be fixed/improved.

[AndiS]

The best point in Adam's post is the confirmation that they are actually working on fixing the dispatcher code itself (as opposed to some tweaks of some Lua scripts).
Until now, I believed I was waiting for patch 2, now I know I am waiting for patch 3 (at least).

The idea for the crossing gates dates back to last autumn. The reason why no one has implemented seems to lie in the fact that it does nothing about the cars. So Acorncomputer's workaround is the best we can get right now and with static cars at the gates you do not need dynamic gates.

Re. positive and negative feelings --- well, everyone is entitled to have them and they always cause adverse feelings when posted. So neither constant ranting nor cries for (self) censorship cut it. We simply need to take a seat and observe the speed at which RSDL fix the core problems of the core software. Clearly, they need to hunt for some funding by publishing add-ons, but while the core problems persist, the mourning about them will persist, too (and rightfully so, in my view).

[npcleary]

Finally releasing grand do-all patches is a mistake. We do not have any idea of the scope of the patch so it may not fall into this category. If it does it is a strategic mistake. RSDL has a very limited customer support operation which wears more than one hat. If they release frequent, but small, fixes/enhancements managing a concise set of new circumstances is much easier than sorting out a patch that hits dozens of areas.

I think that boleyd is right. Having been involved in software production for some years now I learnt very early on that a policy of releasing "big patches" on an irregular basis does not work. The better approach from my experience is to setup a schedule of regular monthly, bimonthly or even quarterly patches.

What are the advantages of this approach?

• * It takes the heat off the development team at RSDL. They will release individual updates when they are ready rather than delaying release whilst they complete the "big patch". If an individual update is not ready it gets delayed until the next scheduled date etc.
  
  * - RSDL get the chance to vary the output. Apart from fixes to the core of the sim they can also regularly release document additions and updates (sorely needed) or new scenery items rather than using the current ad hoc approach to these items.
  
  * It provides better management of customer expectations. The "big patch" is inevitably going to leave some customers disatisfied and the cycle will start again whilst we wait for Upgrade Mk 3. With the regular update approach customers rapidly realise that they are going to get a steady stream of updates and that, come what may, they will get something on the scheduled date. From experience, it significantly reduces the sort of fevered speculation we are currently seeing over "Upgrade Mk 2".
  
  * - Drip feeding updates maintains interest in the sim. I am convinced that there has been a fall off in forum activity recently and that volume of new freeware addons is drying up. Could it be that everyone is waiting for the "big patch"?

I have been very impressed with both KRS and the support that RSDL offer but feel that they do need to think carefully about their policy regarding updates/upgrades. How about it Derek and Adam?

Nick

[RSderek]

Hi,

It is true the mk2 upgrade is late for that we are sorry, it was suppose to be out about May time, three months or so after the first upgrade.
I also agree that smaller upgrades more frequent are better as less has to be tested and users feel the benefit sooner. Mk2 certainly was not meant to be an über upgrade.
I can say we had a plan to start but plans change and for one reason or another it got delayed.
I am not denying the fact that RSDL can not live off providing free upgrades, however some of the work we have undertaken will go along way to ensuring RSDL has a long term future. I like to think it is clear that we are committed to providing on going support, addons and enhancements to Rail Simulator moving forward.
(I’m sure Adam’s and my presence here and there over the past year or so has at least proven that point.)

We understand peoples concerns and gripes with the sim, and we are not saying RS is perfect, far from it, but we do know, and the IOW route proves that quality routes and scenarios can be created with the tools and sim as it is. Just sometimes you have to approach the situations differently.

We have read all of the comments on the various forums from the new and old, mad and sane. We have taken the most sensible suggestions and added them to our database, we are well aware of what needs to be done and while I thank everyone for the advice and guidance, we have to go about it in our own way.
I am not saying the way we have conducted ourselves is right to date but you can be assured we are doing our best.

For those that have embraced RS (who have helped us as much as we have helped you) I have total respect and we hope to deliver future upgrades that will help the process get quicker, easier and in some cases less painful.

When we are ready, and hopefully that will be soon we will give information on Mk2 and the date it will be released.
Some will be happy, some not so. Que Sera, Sera.

Regards


Derek

[Acorncomputer]

Hi Derek

Rome was not built in a day and the Roman Empire lasted over 400 years.
You have only been going for 10 months since release, I am sure there is much more to come over the next 399 years and 2 months.