Virgin Trains to run a direct service Wrexham-London!

[ajax103]

That's a bit cheeky! Can't stand the competition from Wrexham & Shrophire Railway me thinks!

Exactly, they don't like competition so they try and force the W & S railway out of business, I' be glad when they lose the WCML franchise, First anyone?

[jamesinbolton]

First anyone?

No.

[6rdfar90]

Who says they're going to lose the WCML? I can see them running it for a long time to come actually. Hopefully anyways!!

[colinm74]

First anyone?

So you want to take a perfectly good operator (VT) and replace with a company whose only crack at a mainline (FGW) has been an utter shambles, no ta!!

...You were joking weren't you?

[ajax103]

First anyone?

...You were joking weren't you?

Might have been.....

[XPTE]

Agreed richard222, but you should see the Bournemouth trains out of Birmingham New Street. Whenever you travel, its nearly always full and standing. I think Arriva need to remove the shops on trains with high passenger usage. The bottom line is: do we really need shops anyway on board? Many people buy their food from, say, Pumpkin or Upper Crust before they board.

or from tesco express, co-op etc if there clever

Ye that's what I usually do. Go in a nearby supermarket to get my sandwiches/baquettes, drinks, and other little snacks for the train journey. Though not a big fan of Co-Op sandwiches. Usually pop in Tesco's or Marks & Spencer. Better value than Upper Crust or Pumpkin. But occasionally "splash out" and get something from from Upper Crust, Pumpkin, or that De La Francais place or whatever it's called.

[6rdfar90]

Thats what I usually do - goto my local shop before I get on the bus and go off to Leeds. Makes me look really fat though If I decide to go out for the whole day

[rowan826]

I remember that North Western had plan for four return services a day between North Wales and London from 2001 but there were abandoned. Why is the West Coast Mainline is protected from competition?

National Express East Coast has competition from Hull Trains and Grand Central. If competition is allowed on the West Coast there could be a open-access operator running trains between Holyhead and London to compete again Virgin.

Wrexham & Shrophire will be the first open-access operator to compete against Virgin. All the other intercity operators including First Great Western and CrossCountry have no open-access operators to compete against.

[richard222]

The WCML is protected from competition as an agreement between VT and the DfT, mainly because VT stumped up such a large amount of money for the West Coast Upgrade (beyond the call of a franchise holder)

[AlistairW]

So the fault is with the Super Vommiters

I can't think of many mainline stations that couldn't handle a 10 coach Voyager (are the XC 1's even called Voyagers anymore?). Most mainline stations can take an 8 car HST and 2 Power Cars so I couldn't imagine a Voyager being much longer than that.

On topic, the Voyagers need replacing with IEP and cascading to what are currently seen as secondary routes but are worthy of an Intercity service such as Liverpool - Norwich, Cardiff - Cambridge, Cardiff - Portsmouth, Edinburgh - Aberdeen etc releasing 158's for potential scrap (They would be nearing 25 years old by the time this had happened).

Cheers,
Ali

[photons66]

Someone once told me that one of the age-old solutions to solving overcrowding was by adding an extra coach? That sounds overtly simplistic and completely impractical to me. To be extremely honest, I don't see why Arriva or whoever can't make it one of their policies to run 8 or 9 car Voyagers. They do it anyway on some routes, why not extend it to others?

[250787]

Because they don't have enough Voyagers to double up on all routes. Once the AXC HSTs enter service I expect there will be more doubling up of units

[6rdfar90]

I think once the HST sets are regained by Arriva - they will lose some Super Voyagers to WCML for use on the Wrexham - Euston Services.. from what i've heard I think thats whats happening anyways

[87015]

The WCML is protected from competition as an agreement between VT and the DfT, mainly because VT stumped up such a large amount of money for the West Coast Upgrade (beyond the call of a franchise holder)

Don't believe the Branson media machine. Virgin have invested diddly squat, and made hundereds of millions in profit..... And services were still better overall in the mid 90s at least as far as the ones I use are concerned (that a Leighton Buzzard and regular Euston-Brum corridor user).

[photons66]

The WCML is protected from competition as an agreement between VT and the DfT, mainly because VT stumped up such a large amount of money for the West Coast Upgrade (beyond the call of a franchise holder)

Don't believe the Branson media machine. Virgin have invested diddly squat, and made hundereds of millions in profit..... And services were still better overall in the mid 90s at least as far as the ones I use are concerned (that a Leighton Buzzard and regular Euston-Brum corridor user).

With all due respect, that's a somewhat subjective opinion here. I'm a similar commuter and I have found the Pendolinos, however annoyingly ubiquituous and overcrowded, to be faster in terms of getting me to Euston. Faster, that is, so I don't have to tolerate the cramped accommodation.