Offset Tool And Track

[bigvern]

Could this be considered as a sticky, please.

Following on from earlier discussions, RSDL have confirmed that track sections laid using the offset tool cannot be integrated into the track network (hence the error messages trying to create junctions etc.). This is apparently being addressed in the first patch but waiting clarification whether that upgrades the editor so offset track can be linked to the network, or simply removes the ability to select track as an offset item.

In the meantime to avoid wasted work and time - don't use the offset tool to try and create parallel trackage - it isn't going to work.

[RSAdam]

Correct. The ability to select track as the object to be offset from the selection line has been removed in the Upgrade coming shortly.

[NicolaFan06]

I'm really confused by this, over the past few days I've laid quite a few sections of track using the offset tool, and connected it to my main track without any sign of an error (using it to lay track at the exact same distance on both sides of an island platform for example) I don't think I've ever had a problem with the offset tool so far in fact, so I'd be really disappointed to see it removed as it means more hassle to lay parallel track at non-standard spacings easily. (to the point where I'd actually consider having a separate install for the patched version for route building.)

[updash9]

I totally agree with you. Disabling the offset tool for laying tracks looks more like a downgrade than an upgrade to me.

[sniper297]

Problem is track created with the offset tool has no track rule, so you can't change anything on it and junctions don't form guiderails, frogs and points. Works okay for connecting track to the ends, or using the join tool to connect it to regular track, but otherwise it's not the same as regular track. Easiest way to do the cloning is to copy the section (hold down the CTRL key and click on multiple pieces if you want more than one), then paste a copy next to it and move it where you want. For precise alignment with platform edges turn to look at it from the side, then tap the C and N keys to move toward or away from you. Copied and pasted track has the advantage that you can change textures or sounds and connect switches to it since it does have a track rule.

[mbtech22]

I'm really confused by this, over the past few days I've laid quite a few sections of track using the offset tool, and connected it to my main track without any sign of an error (using it to lay track at the exact same distance on both sides of an island platform for example) I don't think I've ever had a problem with the offset tool so far in fact, so I'd be really disappointed to see it removed as it means more hassle to lay parallel track at non-standard spacings easily. (to the point where I'd actually consider having a separate install for the patched version for route building.)

I am glade someone else has said this as I was beginning to doubt my own modelling capabilities. Like several others here I think that to remove the ability of offset tool to copy track is a "downgrade", especially as used with care it is a very useful feature. It should only be used for the parallel tracks in a yard. Then these tracks extended using "track rule" track.
You can use "copy & paste" to deal with straight track, but its no good for curved track which is where the off-set tool comes into its own.
If its considered a "dangerous" feature requiring disabling, I would suggest that there are other more "dangerous" features remaining.

Adam, could RSDL, leave this alone, please. If you really think its worth it perhaps a warning box could be displayed when you select a track item.

Before anybody writes, yes I know that multiple tracks could be used, but given yard track centrelines are not consistently or evenly spaced it would mean many new track rules would have to be written. Otherwise we will end up with more unrealistic looking "free-hand" siding layouts.

Mark Brinton

[updash9]

Problem is track created with the offset tool has no track rule, so you can't change anything on it and junctions don't form guiderails, frogs and points. Works okay for connecting track to the ends, or using the join tool to connect it to regular track, but otherwise it's not the same as regular track. Easiest way to do the cloning is to copy the section (hold down the CTRL key and click on multiple pieces if you want more than one), then paste a copy next to it and move it where you want. For precise alignment with platform edges turn to look at it from the side, then tap the C and N keys to move toward or away from you. Copied and pasted track has the advantage that you can change textures or sounds and connect switches to it since it does have a track rule.

But what if you want parallel tracks along curved sections. copied and pasted tracks wont increase or decrease the radius of curved sections.

[keber]

You then define track section as double track. Right?

[NicolaFan06]

You then define track section as double track. Right?

Yes, that's wonderful IF you are using the predefined track spacing, it's no good if you're using a non standard spacing.

[RSAdam]

The offset tool creates scenery, not track, and thus the game does not see the offset created track as track. Thus it was an omission by us to allow creation of track using the offset tool in the first place.

We may add such functionality in the future, but for now this method of track creation causes more problems that it solves.

[sniper297]

Well, as Adam says it's already done, code is usually locked up for stuff like that months in advance of the actual release, so it's cast in concrete now. Anyway, you're right, default track spacing the radii are in 3.5 meter increments, I just tried it now using the offset tool to create a five meter wide platform, then tried to get either the second, third, or fourth track to line up exactly with the opposite edge of the platform, no joy.

Other alternative;



Create new track rule with 0.5 meter spacing, lay about 20 tracks, and delete all but the one that lines up perfectly with the other edge of the platform. See anchored post regarding junctions made with custom track rules, but as long as you use that tighter track rule only for platform alignment you shouldn't need to distribute it with the route. Half a meter probably isn't really necessary, one meter might work as well, I haven't really experimented with it that much.

[NicolaFan06]

The offset tool creates scenery, not track, and thus the game does not see the offset created track as track. Thus it was an omission by us to allow creation of track using the offset tool in the first place.

We may add such functionality in the future, but for now this method of track creation causes more problems that it solves.

Doesn't see it as track, yet you can drive on it, technically make junctions and crossovers (yep, the frogs don't draw, but you can sure as hell drive over and operate them) - care to tell us what the heck we're driving over then?, instead we'll have to screw around with using new track rules to redefine the spacing, yep that makes sense.

Seems to me rational thought is the most bugged thing I can see in this situation. Workarounds like the above are just that, shoddy workarounds which belong back in MSTS's early days, not in a new game.

[RSAdam]

Hiya,

You have quoted my post above, but your response is related to Jims post.

[NicolaFan06]

It's related to both really, in two parts. The part about the game not seeing the offset track sections as track is directed at your post. It seems perfectly fine to drive upon, even if the game decides it doesn't feel like drawing the frogs on junctions, they still work as junctions which still makes them more useful than not having the feature at all.

[sniper297]

Well, I don't work for RSDL so I can say I agree, it was - maybe I should use a translator here to change this from Chicago West Side into British - a "questionable" (cough cough dumbass cough cough) decision IMAO. That's an uniformed opinion tho, not being an RSDL employee I have no idea how many "HELP!!!" emails they get every day from clueless newbies who scrambled something with the offset tool and can't figure out how to unscramble it. :bad-words: Point is the decision was made and the deed was done, so that's history, rather than hollering about it we're stuck with shoddy workarounds for now. How difficult it will be to undo it I won't know until I see the patch, possibly the track rules can be hacked or a new file overwritten to get the feature back again for those who want it. Another shoddy workaround idea is a set of track rules with same radius, speed limits, etcetera but different spacing that can be swapped with a bat file. The junction forming gizmo is primarily looking for the NAME of the track rule itself, the actual parameters for forming the frogs and guiderails are in the shape files for the track itself, so using several different track rules with the same name but different spacing shouldn't affect the junctions.