Signals

[peterdore]

Hmm right we all know about the bug with signals ok......so I wanted to add the south box at Evercreech Junction
oh and not forgetting the passenger footbridge
Drwho a member of this site reminded me of the problem with sighting the down starter....hmm me thought that could be a problem (the bridge will obscure the drivers line of sight
Being the eternal optimist that I am I thought right what if I dragged the down starter and set it in front of the foot bridge
this I did with ease (wasnt to heavy after all )...all worked fine so off I went to drive the down stopper....what I found was the signal did not return to the On positon untill the Loco and 1 carriage length had passed
This leads me to the thought that we could dragg all the signals back a Tad which would give us more realistic signaling.
your thoughts are most welcome

Peter Doré

[David203]

You don't need to move the signal, just place the marker at the place where you want the signal to change.

David

[ozziedriver]

I suggested this over in the signal section of this forum and got hounded down by a few so-called expert, My 30 years as a driver doesn’t count
They wanted to put a delay in the script if I read them correctly
A signal is always placed back from it’s track circuit for that very reason, so drivers doesn’t see the signal change to red in his face

[peterdore]

Thank you David, thats interesting I will have ago at this, but the footbridge at Evercreech Junction hides the down starter
so no other way to get over this at this location.
Would you be able to give us a blow by blow account of how to use these signal markers old chum?

Pete Doré

[johny]

Peter,

You can indeed drag the signals back, just as you can in MSTS, leaving the interactive/s where they are. I have done this at Bath Green Park for the departure platform, a distance much greater than can be achieved in MSTS. I mentioned this in the original Signals thread, but it's got lost with all the other info', no bad thing for airing the matter again.

Ozziedriver,

With respect, what was being suggested was that a whole train be allowed to pass a semaphore signal before it was returned to ON, and that it could be achieved within the scripting. If this can be achieved, it would mean that where a signal cannot be dragged back sufficient distance, due to layout, it will not return to ON, in the driver's face as you put it. As I have pointed out, elsewhere, route builders didn't seem to realise/utilise this feature in MSTS and I suspect that the same will happen here.

John

[AndiS]

Dear all, I did not smoke anything illegal, but still can clearly see how everyone is right and all can exist in love and harmony.

Moving the track link is a great solution to configure the point, at which a certain signal reacts, individually for this signal. Doing that for all the signals on a certain route can be hard work.

Changing the distance, which the head of the train has to pass before the signal reacts, in the script for such a signal makes the change on a global level. This can save a lot of work. It does not exclude the trick above, but you must of course consider the reaction distance set by the script. E.g., if the script only reacts when 20 m of train passed, and for a certain signal you want the reaction right at the signal pole, then all you need to do is move the track link 20 m to the approach side of the signal (i.e., against the normal direction of travel), and the 20 m in the script will be cancelled out by your 20 m move.

In some places on the planet, the signal is reset after the whole train passed, not after a certain fraction of its head has done so. Then, you need another small change in the script, to make it look at the train's tail, instead of the head. To discuss regional and era specific differences, we should open a dedicated thread in the signalling forum, because it is a non-trivial topic of its own.

[stewart]

Peter,

You can indeed drag the signals back, just as you can in MSTS, leaving the interactive/s where they are. I have done this at Bath Green Park for the departure platform, a distance much greater than can be achieved in MSTS. I mentioned this in the original Signals thread, but it's got lost with all the other info', no bad thing for airing the matter again.

Ozziedriver,

With respect, what was being suggested was that a whole train be allowed to pass a semaphore signal before it was returned to ON, and that it could be achieved within the scripting. If this can be achieved, it would mean that where a signal cannot be dragged back sufficient distance, due to layout, it will not return to ON, in the driver's face as you put it. As I have pointed out, elsewhere, route builders didn't seem to realise/utilise this feature in MSTS and I suspect that the same will happen here.

John

Having been a freight guard back when Guards vans and semaphore signalling was still widespread, I can say that it was quite common for semaphore signals to be returned to on before the last portion of the train had passed them. Particularly when the train in question was within sight of the box, but also on occasion where track circuit was used. As for the matter of the footbridge at Evercreech Junction hiding the down starter, Are there no repeater signals in the game content?

[mbtech22]

Most of the details on how to set out the links for the various sempahore signals can be found in the document I have written on the UK semaphore signalling in KRS and up loaded to UKTS. It can be found in the downloads section file ref. 17690. The latest version (1.02) came on line last night.
On the subject of when to replace semaphore signals, I beleive that the signalling regulations said that the train had to also have passed over all the points interlocked with the signal before relpacing the signal to on (for non-track circuited areas). You may be able to acheive this by using the "Route" Links, which can deted the end of the train, to return the signal to on. Rather than use the "Initial" Link. This would however require amn expert with the scrip files to make the necessary adjustments.

Mark Brinton

[RSAdam]

With the release of the official signal scripting guide for RailSim on monday hopefully you can all decide on a common solution whether it be script or link placement.

[David203]

Hi Peter,

A lot of the signals seem to be for special situations, custom built things I guess, how we decide which are custom and which are basic seems to be "try it and see what it does". Try looking at some signals in the editor and see how they're set up, some are quite complex.

Signals have a varying number of markers dependant on the number of junctions they cover, basically marker 0 goes next to the signal, marker 1 is staright ahead, the others are placed on the branches, in numerical order and (I think) in clockwise order.

Hopefully the documentation will make things crystal clear!

David

[David203]

Here's something practical to try.

Lay a straight length of track, make a left branch, and a little way along the straight make a right branch.
Select signal UK 3Asp JuncSig_F14 and place it before the first junction, Place the 0 marker on the track next to it.
Place the 1 marker on the straight beyond the second junction, the 2 on the left branch, 3 on the right branch.
Put a loco on the track and drive.
If the both junctions are set straight ahead you'll have a green light with no feathers.
If the first junction is set to the left you'll have a green light and left feather.
If the first junction is set straight ahead and the second set right you''ll get a green light and right feather.

How on earth you would do this with a semaphore I have no idea!

Have fun,

David.

[ozziedriver]

Technically the semaphore signal protects the points then after that the main line
If the semaphore is at proceed it tells the driver the points are set for the main line and the section of track up to the next fixed signal is clear
If the train is required to go into another track the signalman would hold the semaphore signal at stop until the train was at or near to a stand and then place the signal to proceed
It is then up to the driver to observe were the signalman is to place his train by the position of the points

[rogertra]

I suggested this over in the signal section of this forum and got hounded down by a few so-called expert, My 30 years as a driver doesn’t count
They wanted to put a delay in the script if I read them correctly
A signal is always placed back from it’s track circuit for that very reason, so drivers doesn’t see the signal change to red in his face

Over in signalling, I also mentioned it was rather disconcerting having a semaphore drop to red just before you pass it.

The reply was something to the effect that they knew about it, were correcting it but there's something in the region of 200 files that need changing.

I've also noticed distant signal "Off" when the branch is signalled at a splitting home, which is also a no-no.

And worse, both approaching and departing to Templecombe, the distants are "Off" as are BOTH arms of the splitting homes, something that the interlocking would also prevent.

These people definately need a leason on how UK signalling works. I get the feeling that they didn't consult anyone and read a book or two but just don't "get it".

[peteworsley]

Morning all

Just a couple of snippets I have used to improve things at Evercreech Junction:



I've replaced the 2-road footbridge with the 3-road version which pushes the piers back on the platform, and improves sighting of the signal - unfortunately the design is too tall for a platform-mounted footbridge, so I've had to sink it down, which makes a bit of a mess of the steps/handrails. I've placed a signal box alongside the level-crossing, but it obviously isn't the right one.

I've installed a water column on the Down platform track, exactly opposite the existing one on the Up line - if you then carefully move the two shapes together (not carefully enough, if you look closely), it appears that that same water column can be used in either direction - no need for uncoupling and running-across. The alternative is to hide the visible shape underground - it works, but you don't get the animation.

I've shortened the sidings in the station yard and moved the road to make the level crossing closer to the platform and at more of an acute angle, moved the water tower etc. I now need to move the trailing crossover back towards the level-crossing. I've also moved some of the signal markers while the experts get to grips with the scripting.

Unfortunately, I'm finding the road building more difficult that the track at the moment, so it's not very good, so far!

And finally, I've managed to introduce another Black Five onto the route - I must get a life!

Best wishes

Pete W

[peterdore]

Well done Peter. thats just what I have done!
It really improves the station dont you think

Pete Doré