General discussion about Rail Simulator that doesn't really fit in to any specific category. A good place to start if you're not sure what category it should fit in to as well.
Or am I being too hasty...it could form the basis of an exciting new game called Shunter Simulator, where you stumble around in the cold and wet, changing points to your hearts content. And sometimes, if you are very lucky, you get to ride on the loco steps!
Seriously though, if this "feature" is not removed, or at least made switchable in the soonest possible update, then I fear it could be curtains for KRS - Flight Simulator pilots do not have to sweep the runway and scare the birds away before take-off.
What I dont understand is why in scenarios the manual points are not affected by the path set for one's train by the "virtual "signalman.
For example when running "In the Misty" when routed on to a loop you get a red because the points at the exit are manual and set against you (in their "normal" position). Ok you can change them yourself but it wouldn't happen like that IRL. OK a manual point is a manual point, but I think is that a fair number of them on this route should not be. It took me a while just to find the correct path leaving the yard in Hagen and that's not normal. I'm sure manual points in MSTS are set the correct way by a path.
, e.g. S&D Delivery day, I can accept switching the points around the yard as I coal my loco and couple up to my train, I then get the message well done proceed to your next objective, ok i ithnk the route's set off I go. First attempt I'm in Bath Gas works coal siding crash into buffer stops, next attempt I accelerate past the gasworks, oh hang on I'm now on a siding, crash into buffer stops, 3rd attempt yes this is it I'm away, derailed on points as I join the main line on the viaduct.
Thats four attempts just to leave Bath.
However when I start shunting at Evercreech the mainline points are switched for me (missed a trick there you should have the points change after we whistle once we're clear of them).
The whole thing would be easier if you could have hints, "Whoa there lad, you've not got the road set on the mainline" etc.. It wouldn;t behalf as annoying if the load times for the routes wasn;t so long, you crash and think do I really want to wait around for this to load again?.
I don't see what the problem is. MSTS has manual points in the yards, and switching them was limited to the one nearest the loco, so navigating through a complex yard had to be done at dead slow, especially when points were really close together. Being able to set up the complete path to the required siding in the 2D map is a major step forward in my opinion.
OK, there might be a few points on the default RS routes that would be better being automatic than manual, but we can sort that out later, hopefully.
ianm42 wrote:I don't see what the problem is. MSTS has manual points in the yards, and switching them was limited to the one nearest the loco, so navigating through a complex yard had to be done at dead slow, especially when points were really close together. Being able to set up the complete path to the required siding in the 2D map is a major step forward in my opinion.
OK, there might be a few points on the default RS routes that would be better being automatic than manual, but we can sort that out later, hopefully.
I agree with this. Coming from TRS Iam use to using the 2d map and so I had no problem with the S&D delivery day scenario the first time. For people used to MSTS it may be more of a problem getting to grips on how it all fits together. I think that the scenarios could have had more tips or comments as you go but hopefully when we get the dev tools people writing their own scenarios will be able to add these to their creations
ianm42 wrote:...OK, there might be a few points on the default RS routes that would be better being automatic than manual, but we can sort that out later, hopefully...
I wonder if it's possible to change the properties of a junction.
I know you can toggle manual junctions when laying the track but if you want to change it afterwards can you do it without having to re-lay it?
(Right now I can't even find how to add the levers )
missed a trick there you should have the points change after we whistle once we're clear of them
Someone might be able to implement that once we get the tools for scripting? It would be wonderful if we could get it working, very prototypical. Also it might be possible to link the crossovers so that they switch as a pair.
"Time waits for no man - but it sometimes stops to pick up hitchhikers"
All I can suggest is suspending the sim instead of uninstalling it. The current disaster is a combination of poor base assets (some of the shapes, the signal logic, hopefully not the scenario engine), poor route design, and poor scenario design.
Next week we will find out about the tools. At the moment, I am nearly not hot any more about the licence scam, as no one will develop payware in the near future anyway. Then we will know what we are able to fix and how well the scenario creation and execution work, and how usable the editor becomes with the "additional" tools.
Then we will see how many people are willing to contribute to the general overhauling of the default routes, and how much work it will be.
I see it as a dynamic process, which can gain momentum in both directions.
On the one hand, fixing the switches should be really easy. Working signals will come soon. Then, people will enjoy the default scenarios much more than now, which will motivate a few of them to contribute. Assuming that 3DCanvas will have a working KRS exporter in a few weeks and that you do not need PhotoShop or other expensive software in addition, people could start to contribute first models. Of course, it does not help that there is no way to convert TSM assets with their textures, but then again retexturing them to the standards of KRS will be a good idea anyway.
On the other hand, there are many bugs in the core, which need to be addressed. If they are not, even with enthusiastic content creation the game will not last too long. Then, the prospective of a diminishing user base will demotivate content creators which will reduce the attractiveness of the game which will reduce the user base.
So, at the moment, all you can do is wait for an evaluation of the tools, and for the announcement of a bug fix. (And the evaluation of it, once it arrived.)
peteworsley wrote:I'm sorry chaps - it's the trailing points which are bugging me - not the automatic v manual.
It seems I am alone, so "Game Over", as it were.
PW
I understand your problem, but you know its a issue and is listed as an item to be fixed so I would say in the mean time make more use of the 2d map and make sure you path is set properly or am I missing something ?
peteworsley wrote:I'm sorry chaps - it's the trailing points which are bugging me - not the automatic v manual.
It seems I am alone, so "Game Over", as it were.
PW
But it is the same problem, your coming against trailing points not set the way you expect, if they were automatically set for your route, you wouldn't be derailing on them.
I know that yes you can crash through trailing points, but, isn't it frowned upon unless they are sprung points specifically placed i.e. on run round loops. Crashing through points on the mainline causes a fair bit of damage to point rodding.motors etc..
Normally under old mechanical signal box workings, facing points were usually protected by a locking mechanism to prevent accidental usage ie the signalman would have to throw another lever to allow the changing of the facing points. With this in mind, the protected points if used as trailing points would not allow the passage of the train if the points had been returned back, it would probably derail the front boggie due to the point locking mentioned.I know from experience.
Cross over roads were usually protected because they worked both ends of the points at the same time so they were both facing and trailing points at the same time.
When a train has been shunted off the line into sidings, not under the control of the signalman, it was the shunter with the agreement of driver that worked the points to acheive their aims. Any movments back to the line under the control of the signalman need permission with either a point release or a signal. This is to prevent the train from fouling the main line without the signalmans permission.
Normally trailling points can be driven through without causing any damage. But dont forget if the movement is under control of the signalman then there will be some control measure over that move. If the signal is broken or faulty, signalman can call the driver passed the signal with an appropriate flag. A driver would not SPAD unless either a mistake on braking distance or giving permission to do so from the signalman.
I know it does not stop the dialog box showing up as described, but you would have thought that the right point control measure would have been implemented in the simulator. I have not yet brought the software, I am waiting until after the 12th to see what happends.
I have to say though, that despite annoying things like this in the sim I am warming to it now. I gave it a measly 3 out of 10 at first. I think that has now risen to 6 out 0f 10 now. Like everyone else I'm really waiting for the tools to come out before I decide if it's worth continuing with or not.
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