Had enough

[NicolaFan06]

Frankly, my view on KRS and me in the future is this:
It has bugs, if bugs are fixed, yay I'm a happy user.

When the proper dev tools are released I'll be as happy as a pig in unmentionable biological waste, and mess around in there for quite a while. I won't be throwing my copy away, selling it, trashing it or shelving it. Yes, I'm not happy with it in it's current state, I think the biggest thing is that we can't do anything about it right now, which pushes frustration levels higher.

There are things I'm happy with:
* Looking back out of the cab window at passengers when I got them to appear and seeing them board and alight.
* Moving between offside and drivers side in the cab, and being able to pick the angle I looked outside at depending what I was doing.
* What looks like an easier way to put stock in and take it out, I'm hoping the package manager MIGHT support dependancy checking (no more asking "did you install UKTS File ID xxxx first or not?")
* A free roaming camera, if I want to, I can technically hop out and wander to the other end of the train when I change ends, or walkthrough the train on a multiple unit, no ingame reason to do so, but it adds to the immersion

Those four things alone make me hope that we'll see a good future with KRS. Hell, deliver a nice clean patch that fixes the bugs and takes the feedback onboard and good editing tools and I'd happily pay twice the asking price for the sim.

Mark

[rabid]

As far as I remember, MSTS never halted you when passing any clear signal if you were doing .1mph over the speed limit. Nor do I remember red signals not being preceeded by cautionary signals. With KRS you cannot rely on speed boards to tell you of the correct speed as there are alot missing and you do not get warning boards of the decrease in speed ahead. The same can be said for MSTS at the time, however the track monitor gave the necessary warnings, something that the KRS track monitor does not.

To be fair on KRS, I remember being regularly derailed by MSTS by just going a couple of mph over the limit.

There were few if any advanced warning boards for speed limits, thus the Track Monitor was not just helpful but essential to avoid disaster!

The Track Monitor also did not show any gradient information, something that everyone whinged about at the time - KRS does.

The default routes were certainly not top quality and the standard of tracklaying was pretty grim, with dog-leg gradient changes (disappointingly you can still find those on some recent payware routes!).

The track sounds were abysmal; one seemed to be travelling permanently with a blacksmith on board (clang, clang). KRS is not perfect but has some sounds going over points, squealing round curves, and mechanical "groans" when stopping and starting.

It's important to keep things in perspective!!

David

[decapod]

I've been avoiding the forums for a few days and just popped in to see how everyone was loving the new sim

I am _so_ glad I didn't get a copy. I'll wait for the 3rd patch next year when the game is in the bargain bins.

As Mick said, a lot of the warning signs were there.

Now if you don't want to get left behind, get a copy of FSX and learn to fly for a few months before MSTS2 comes out.
I suspect there are a few flight sim "modders" who would quite like to have a go at trains - it's going to be much bigger than MSTS1 ever was.

[biged]

I was going to buy a copy of KRS but after closely following the experiences and dramas listed in this and the other threads I think I will pass.
My money would be better spent elsewhere: perhaps on a new payware msts route.
Cheers Ed

[mickoo737]

Paul,

You are sooo right, the fact that FSx is being built on the FSx game engine has just begun to filter through to the FS crowd and theres a movement already and quite a lot of excitement, ironically there thinking of making planes fly in TSx LOL, either way there is interest and cross fertilisation is always a good thing, it'll be even better when Acceleration hits the shelves....some of those animation tricks like slung loads drop and pick up are getting into train sim dynamics, especially how the load performs under 3D dynamic stress and strains....far far more complex that train sim 2D stress and strains.

Best

Michael

[decapod]

I forgot about those slung loads having physics - I was 50/50 about getting Acceleration, now I'll definitely get a copy when I'm over there next month.

I've noticed a few posts on the MSTS2 developers blogs from flight simmers keen to learn, but not much on the forums.

[bigvern]

I'm spending the winter in TRS Surveyor building part of the Northern Inlandsbanan. At least I can use TSM/3DC to put together all my buildings and seamlessly import them. Once that's done maybe March 2008 I'll see what's emerged from the EARS debacle and if it has become a viable freeware developer's platform. I've got to spend another hour or two in the new sim to collect a bit more information (and my thoughts) before writing up a review but it's not going to be an easy one to do, that's for sure. After that I think it will be going back on the shelf. The *minimum* I am expecting from RSD/Kuju is to rapidly cure the signalling problems, allow us to set up proper timetable scenarios/consist management and fix that god-awful track sound.

[pmyers]

[quote="johndibben"]
... there is an opportunity for a fresh start if people want it enough and appreciate that which we have and not that which we would like.[/quote]

Absolutely agree with you on your prevous posting John.

I too am an MSTS veteran (I even imported mine from the US six weeks ahead of the UK - Thanks to information provided by Tim Booth.). After a couple of days, I wondered why I had bothered. But I stuck with it, and like you downloaded the early content produced by Tim and others. The community grew and the quality of the content got better, dragging the software with it. But there is a point at which you can't move it on any further. At some point the core software can't accomodate any more changes.

Of course there are deficiencies in RS as released, no one would pretend otherwise, but there is enough here that is encouraging. I've installed and played the sim with no technical problems (apart from a slight gripe about screen res) ,and this on an iMac with an unsupported graphics card! I'm happy with the performance and (and I know this is going to sound heretical) enjoyed the activities. I like cab switching, jumping in and out of the world/scenario editor with a mouse click ,the quality of the graphics and provided routes.

Look, for the people who don't like it, uninstall it and stick it in a drawer or take it back to the shop or whatever. Don't keep on repeating you don't like it ad nauseum. I'd like to read some constructive comment for a change.

Already the call to prayer is being sounded for MSTS2 by some and Kuju are being criticised for releasing unfinished and sloppy code whilst Microsoft are being held up as paragons of virtue. Microsoft know all about unfinished code and missing features - it's called Windows Vista. The latest incarnation of which seems to be causing most of the technical issues with RS

Thank you for your attention

Paul

[johndibben]

Already the call to prayer is being sounded for MSTS2 by some and Kuju are being criticised for releasing unfinished and sloppy code whilst Microsoft are being held up as paragons of virtue. Microsoft know all about unfinished code and missing features - it's called Windows Vista. The latest incarnation of which seems to be causing most of the technical issues with RS

Thanks, Paul

Reckon those who persist with 'jam tomorrow' almost as a hobby in itself have lost the plot. They're on a search for a Utopian dream in which they can play a key part. When a new sim fails on one or both counts their allegiances change. To be fair some have always opposed KRS but at least they're consistant. Fickle isn't the word. I've sat here and seen MS regarded as all that's good, all that's bad and back again time after time. Trainz less so but the same applies. A trail of followers rush one way and then the opposite. We've lived on promises for 6 years. Taking the past into account, I'm clutching tight that which I have rather than go along with the above one more day.

I hope MSTS2 appears and the whole world is available as some believe but what little information there is talks of a framework. That could mean far less. It could mean simply a load of co-ordinates. No one talking to us other than to say hello and make jokes. I want a sim and not a caberet act

I don't often quote Margeret Thatcher by my philosophy is 'You turn if the want to...'

In a years time KRS could be a success and some might look daft. If so, they'll be back. I've seen many get the hump but most return. Of course, comments made now won't be welcomed and we'll be told not to dredge up the past. That's the usual tactic to cover up embarrassing statements.

Put my faith in MS after what I've experienced and read and ignore those who deliver something?

Not a chance

[fgrsimon]

hi everyone i installed rail sim and what a dissapointment it was , the only thing what looks good on it are the engines but one thing no ones mentioned on the forums is when they announced the rail sim was being created a few people asked will we be able to use all our routes of msts1 on the new rail sim and kuju replyed you would be able to use the routes. so what happened to that as like a lot problems with this rail sim its not there all in all 30 quid wasted i will sit and wait to see how it developes then i just might go back to it but in the mean time my msts1 will stay on my comp ..

It was never stated anywhere that MSTS routes would be compatible with KRS routes as far as I am aware.

[johnlorna49]

i am 90% sure thats what they said it was in the early months of announceing rail sim . anyway just have to wait to see what happens to rail sim and what come out in coming months . but all i can say is roll on msts2 and hope that is better than this

[phat2003uk]

Such a shame to see so many respected developers not opting for RS for a long time to come. Very surprised at people not buying it just from what we say, you should really test out yourself.

[johnlorna49]

have done paid 30 quid for it

[johndibben]

Such a shame to see so many respected developers not opting for RS for a long time to come. Very surprised at people not buying it just from what we say, you should really test out yourself.

No one is indispensible and any gap will be filled. There's people buying KRS as others bought MSTS and Trainz. Possible new blood.

Suspect most can make up their own minds and those who would seek to influence others are punching above their weight these days.

I'm off to heave the KRS DVD into the computer risking a hernia and see what I can find.

It's all a laugh really at the end of the day

[MartinH]

John

Sadly, I don't think you will find "the gap" being filled, at least not nearly enough to create the content that we've become used to in MSTS. Speaking to some of the artists who have already made rolling stock for Rail Simulator, it is nowhere near as quick and easy as it was for MSTS, not if you want to take advantage of the superior graphics in the new sim, and I hate to imagine the effort required to make a cab. I'm sure that you will see freeware locos soon enough, but if it is little more than MSTS quality content re-exported to the new format, then it won't look any different to what we have in MSTS. I'm not saying that there aren't plenty of artists out there who are capable, but with the effort required, it's going to be a slow process. Neither am I expecting to see a rush of new scenarios uploaded in the way that we're used to seeing MSTS activities. By the sounds of things, you need a PhD to script the scenarios and judging by the default content, even the Kuju programmers struggled. I don't even believe what's being said about route building being easier. Sure, there are some nice features for route builders to play with, but is it really any easier? Not in my opinion! I hope that November 12th brings the answer to everyone's prayers, but I won't be holding my breath.

Even if the technical issues are resloved, there is still the fundamental problem of the relationship between publisher and 3rd party content providers to overcome. With MSTS, we were all encouraged to have a go, with anyone able to upload their own routes (even using default content) without restrictions (so long as it was freeware). Commercial developers have always had to tread carefully regarding the EULA, but there wasn't the brick wall that we face with the new sim.

There is another fundamental difference between Rail Simulator now and MSTS back in 2001. Back then, there was nothing else, so we were grateful for whatever content came our way. This time round, we've got an adequate (not perfect) sim already, with more content than anyone could have imagined 6 years ago. Not only that, but there's the promise of something better by this time next year.

Sorry for sounding so negative.

Martin