Hi Matt,
Maybe you could put a note on the front page to say BATS have closed down their down load page and also they have now closed the forum down as well.
Also they have stopped selling any products from thier shop as well.So I wonder what is going to happen to the EH2 Addon.
Michael Hendle
BATS
Moderator: Moderators
-
michaelhendle
- Very Active Forum Member
- Posts: 8189
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 4:15 pm
- Location: Peterborough originally Hounslow &Durban
-
mickoo737
- Well Established Forum Member
- Posts: 519
- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:10 am
- Location: Felixstowe
- Contact:
Michael H,
If you look at the BATs forum ( whats left of it ) you should see the two remaining threads that people can post in, one being the official announcement as to what, why and how, the second being pertinent to EH2.
In a nut shell it will all be released as freeware over the next few days at UKTS, Tim, Martin, Matt a nd others are working to clean it all up for the UKTS library and make sure no vestiges of commercial work remain in the packages. It will take a short while but parts should start to filter through over the weekend.
I also believe Matt will be doing a news header in due course but it is all very early days right now and a lot more water has to flow under a great many more bridges so the situation is very fluid at the moment.
Come this evening it may all change back again, but the official notice at BATs explains the current situation quite sufficiently for the time being.
Hope that explains it a little bit better.
Kindest
Michael
If you look at the BATs forum ( whats left of it ) you should see the two remaining threads that people can post in, one being the official announcement as to what, why and how, the second being pertinent to EH2.
In a nut shell it will all be released as freeware over the next few days at UKTS, Tim, Martin, Matt a nd others are working to clean it all up for the UKTS library and make sure no vestiges of commercial work remain in the packages. It will take a short while but parts should start to filter through over the weekend.
I also believe Matt will be doing a news header in due course but it is all very early days right now and a lot more water has to flow under a great many more bridges so the situation is very fluid at the moment.
Come this evening it may all change back again, but the official notice at BATs explains the current situation quite sufficiently for the time being.
Hope that explains it a little bit better.
Kindest
Michael
-
ashgray
- Wafflus Maximus
- Posts: 12235
- Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 3:25 pm
- Location: GWR, Nailsea, Somerset
A sad day indeed Mike - I'm sure all here wish everyone at BATS the very best of luck for the future, however it turns out.
Ashley
Ashley
Ashley Gray
Intel Core i7-7700K @ 4.2Ghz Quad Core, Gigabyte Gaming Motherboard, 2 x 512Gb SSDs + 1TB SATA drives,
16 Gb DDR-4 Corsair RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX1060 6Gb RAM, ASUS Xonar D2X/XDT Soundcard, Windows 10 64 bit
Intel Core i7-7700K @ 4.2Ghz Quad Core, Gigabyte Gaming Motherboard, 2 x 512Gb SSDs + 1TB SATA drives,
16 Gb DDR-4 Corsair RAM, Nvidia GeForce GTX1060 6Gb RAM, ASUS Xonar D2X/XDT Soundcard, Windows 10 64 bit
-
NeutronIC
- Atomic Systems Team
- Posts: 11085
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: E11, London, England
- Contact:
To be honest i've held off doing a news announcement for now purely because it's too fluid - I don't want to announce the demise of BATS only for it to resurrect the same evening (not that I don't want it to resurrect, I want to avoid potentially damaging and/or incorrect announcements).
As far as whether the BATS file library is offline, again, it's not really relevant to this site in particular and I felt that us announcing things like this could equally be seen as twisting a knife that I have no desire to twist.
I've been in communication with Tim for a while now though about this, and when there's something concrete to report i'll put a note up.
It's sad to see BATS probably disappearing, I don't like to see the community shrink in any form.
I would like to kindly suggest that those downloading the bits and pieces from the EH2 pack may like to consider sending a small donation to the AC Loco Group, particularly if they were planning on spending the money for the pack anyway.
Matt.
As far as whether the BATS file library is offline, again, it's not really relevant to this site in particular and I felt that us announcing things like this could equally be seen as twisting a knife that I have no desire to twist.
I've been in communication with Tim for a while now though about this, and when there's something concrete to report i'll put a note up.
It's sad to see BATS probably disappearing, I don't like to see the community shrink in any form.
I would like to kindly suggest that those downloading the bits and pieces from the EH2 pack may like to consider sending a small donation to the AC Loco Group, particularly if they were planning on spending the money for the pack anyway.
Matt.
I do hope the situation with their own site, it's forum and library can be resolved and the explanation posted there is very clear about the problems.
In view of the number of models that are out there, and that many of us have them, would UKTS consider reopening a BATS thread, and if they want host some of the repaints. Initially this could be used to post updates on progress with resolving the issues IF those involved would find that helpful?
I've been around long enough to know the history and only others who have will know why I refer to that, but as has been mentioned much water has passed under the bridge. There were some unique models there and if they dissappear completely it'll be a huge loss to the communal treasure trove. Many activities were written and posted here involving use of the BATs models. The reskin library and their freeware library had some great models and it would be a shame to see them lost.
Obviously this is a "contingency" solution. I'm not suggesting that anyone should sit like a vulture over a dying beast....especially as it may well just be sleeping.
As mentioned previously I do hope that this doesn't signal a further deteroration in Mikes health and hope that that will recover along with the site and a better admin structure(?).
Geoff
In view of the number of models that are out there, and that many of us have them, would UKTS consider reopening a BATS thread, and if they want host some of the repaints. Initially this could be used to post updates on progress with resolving the issues IF those involved would find that helpful?
I've been around long enough to know the history and only others who have will know why I refer to that, but as has been mentioned much water has passed under the bridge. There were some unique models there and if they dissappear completely it'll be a huge loss to the communal treasure trove. Many activities were written and posted here involving use of the BATs models. The reskin library and their freeware library had some great models and it would be a shame to see them lost.
Obviously this is a "contingency" solution. I'm not suggesting that anyone should sit like a vulture over a dying beast....especially as it may well just be sleeping.
As mentioned previously I do hope that this doesn't signal a further deteroration in Mikes health and hope that that will recover along with the site and a better admin structure(?).
Geoff
-
johnmnstl
- Very Active Forum Member
- Posts: 1300
- Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 1:17 pm
- Location: Back in the Steel City
- Contact:
Indeed it is a sad day and the losers are the entire community. As stated the situation is rather fluid at the moment and when it has settled down things will move forward positively.
The downloads and reskins are exceptional - I do hope that there is a way for the reskins to be available again for the newcomers to the community. (Perhaps Matt could get together with Martin and come up with something), it would be a great shame to loose everything. Indeed some of Tims new projects were looking really good and I for one was looking forward to the NBLs and 40's he was working on. The EH2 pack coming to UKTS is great news and the team deserve full credit for it.
I really do hope that Mike is ok and that the team are back together doing what they do best. Providing us with some of the best addons to the sim.
Cheers
John
The downloads and reskins are exceptional - I do hope that there is a way for the reskins to be available again for the newcomers to the community. (Perhaps Matt could get together with Martin and come up with something), it would be a great shame to loose everything. Indeed some of Tims new projects were looking really good and I for one was looking forward to the NBLs and 40's he was working on. The EH2 pack coming to UKTS is great news and the team deserve full credit for it.
I really do hope that Mike is ok and that the team are back together doing what they do best. Providing us with some of the best addons to the sim.
Cheers
John
Last edited by johnmnstl on Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John (Otherwise known as Meld)
Golden Rules for Train Simming
1 - Back UP !! 2 - Read The Read Me/Manual 3 - Buy a sledgehammer 4 - Back UP !!!AGAIN
Golden Rules for Train Simming
1 - Back UP !! 2 - Read The Read Me/Manual 3 - Buy a sledgehammer 4 - Back UP !!!AGAIN
-
NeutronIC
- Atomic Systems Team
- Posts: 11085
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: E11, London, England
- Contact:
Again i'm in communication with Tim specifically and he is adding his freeware items to the pending list to be sorted and uploaded as and when he gets the chance - so his items will be back some point.
As far as other members of the BATS team, well, their work is certainly very welcome to be uploaded of course.
The reskins are slightly more tricky. Back in the big withdrawal, BATS withdrew permission for us to host reskins completely - however a few months ago, privately (and not written down) Mike did say that we were welcome to host anything including the reskins as long as another permission withdrawal didn't supercede it (such as Terry's work). So, whether that means we are now able to host the reskins or not I'm not 100% clear and even then given the last exchanges with Mike i'm not sure that the permission would still stand.
If you have done some reskins and would like to upload them here, I would recommend you obtain permission to do so first, if you have that permission then of course the files are welcome.
If someone at BATS has authority to grant (or deny) that permission then drop me a note and let me know so I can give people guidance.
I won't re-start the BATS forum here, but people are welcome to discuss them, their work, the situation etc freely on the existing forums whether here or in Gen MSTS etc. Perhaps we should agree on a single place (i'm happy for topics related to the current situation to be here given the implications for this sites administration) and agree that all related topics should have a 'BATS' in the title so that people can easily identify them. Topics related to general BATS subjects like their work, support etc should be put in the Gen MSTS forum as they don't really affect the operation or administration of this site as such.
Matt.
As far as other members of the BATS team, well, their work is certainly very welcome to be uploaded of course.
The reskins are slightly more tricky. Back in the big withdrawal, BATS withdrew permission for us to host reskins completely - however a few months ago, privately (and not written down) Mike did say that we were welcome to host anything including the reskins as long as another permission withdrawal didn't supercede it (such as Terry's work). So, whether that means we are now able to host the reskins or not I'm not 100% clear and even then given the last exchanges with Mike i'm not sure that the permission would still stand.
If you have done some reskins and would like to upload them here, I would recommend you obtain permission to do so first, if you have that permission then of course the files are welcome.
If someone at BATS has authority to grant (or deny) that permission then drop me a note and let me know so I can give people guidance.
I won't re-start the BATS forum here, but people are welcome to discuss them, their work, the situation etc freely on the existing forums whether here or in Gen MSTS etc. Perhaps we should agree on a single place (i'm happy for topics related to the current situation to be here given the implications for this sites administration) and agree that all related topics should have a 'BATS' in the title so that people can easily identify them. Topics related to general BATS subjects like their work, support etc should be put in the Gen MSTS forum as they don't really affect the operation or administration of this site as such.
Matt.
-
mickoo737
- Well Established Forum Member
- Posts: 519
- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:10 am
- Location: Felixstowe
- Contact:
Geoff, the notion is good to host BATs skins elsewhere but we might run into legal implications.
'IF' BATs closes its doors then by rights all trading ceases as does all its products, that leaves its developers in a bit of a quandry and we cannot technically offer them as freeware or offer reskins for a product that isnt legal tender any more.
The impact goes further with CDs still out there from other sources, ie UKTS and Contact Sales, those are still selling and still need supporting, but funds will not be going to the relevant parties, so some sort of agreement has to be sorted there so they can still trade.
To that end there is no pulling plugs or rash actions ( history taught us bitterly last time ) to date.
There are many discussions going on to try and minimise the impact on everyone.
Mikes health is fine according to the people he is talking too, which l'm sad to say isnt some of the parties who need to talk to him right now. With out effective communication the remaining staff have to act in the best interests of the remaining concerns.
Matt is right to hold off on an official comment, though to be fair the situation has not internally changed in the past several months so l'd be suprised if it changed overnight, but we have to leave a proviso that it may.
I think it would be reasonably safe to say that a return to the good old days is rapidly diminishing, too much bad water has passed already l'm afraid. When something like this happens it is very hard to go back to what you had, chances are something new will arise, either as a group or as individuals.
Above all the official statement still stands at this moment in time and it is Zulu + 14hrs with no sign of change.
Kindest
Michael
'IF' BATs closes its doors then by rights all trading ceases as does all its products, that leaves its developers in a bit of a quandry and we cannot technically offer them as freeware or offer reskins for a product that isnt legal tender any more.
The impact goes further with CDs still out there from other sources, ie UKTS and Contact Sales, those are still selling and still need supporting, but funds will not be going to the relevant parties, so some sort of agreement has to be sorted there so they can still trade.
To that end there is no pulling plugs or rash actions ( history taught us bitterly last time ) to date.
There are many discussions going on to try and minimise the impact on everyone.
Mikes health is fine according to the people he is talking too, which l'm sad to say isnt some of the parties who need to talk to him right now. With out effective communication the remaining staff have to act in the best interests of the remaining concerns.
Matt is right to hold off on an official comment, though to be fair the situation has not internally changed in the past several months so l'd be suprised if it changed overnight, but we have to leave a proviso that it may.
I think it would be reasonably safe to say that a return to the good old days is rapidly diminishing, too much bad water has passed already l'm afraid. When something like this happens it is very hard to go back to what you had, chances are something new will arise, either as a group or as individuals.
Above all the official statement still stands at this moment in time and it is Zulu + 14hrs with no sign of change.
Kindest
Michael
-
mickoo737
- Well Established Forum Member
- Posts: 519
- Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 11:10 am
- Location: Felixstowe
- Contact:
Matt, we have asked on the BATs forum for people to hold on to reskins as we dont know the legal implications of it all yet.
They will need an installer and that comes from one guy who right now is how shall we say, a touch upset, so adding more workload then he/we all ready have isnt a good idea.
The primary tack is to resolve if BATs ceases or returns in some form or another, until then it'd be safe to just all step back with freeware, skins and such like.
The ground is soft enough as it is with out piling in more water and sand in the shape of reskins and free items ( not with standings Tims EH2 which is totally absolved from any BATs implications ).
l'm also keen not to say anything here that will back anyone into a corner or damage current relationships and understandings, so please if l screw up its not intentional, its been a long 24 hrs and its not going to get any easier in the next 24 l'm afraid to say.
Kindest
Michael
They will need an installer and that comes from one guy who right now is how shall we say, a touch upset, so adding more workload then he/we all ready have isnt a good idea.
The primary tack is to resolve if BATs ceases or returns in some form or another, until then it'd be safe to just all step back with freeware, skins and such like.
The ground is soft enough as it is with out piling in more water and sand in the shape of reskins and free items ( not with standings Tims EH2 which is totally absolved from any BATs implications ).
l'm also keen not to say anything here that will back anyone into a corner or damage current relationships and understandings, so please if l screw up its not intentional, its been a long 24 hrs and its not going to get any easier in the next 24 l'm afraid to say.
Kindest
Michael
NeutronIC wrote:Again i'm in communication with Tim specifically and he is adding his freeware items to the pending list to be sorted and uploaded as and when he gets the chance - so his items will be back some point.
As far as other members of the BATS team, well, their work is certainly very welcome to be uploaded of course.
The reskins are slightly more tricky. Back in the big withdrawal, BATS withdrew permission for us to host reskins completely - however a few months ago, privately (and not written down) Mike did say that we were welcome to host anything including the reskins as long as another permission withdrawal didn't supercede it (such as Terry's work). So, whether that means we are now able to host the reskins or not I'm not 100% clear and even then given the last exchanges with Mike i'm not sure that the permission would still stand.
If you have done some reskins and would like to upload them here, I would recommend you obtain permission to do so first, if you have that permission then of course the files are welcome.
If someone at BATS has authority to grant (or deny) that permission then drop me a note and let me know so I can give people guidance.
I won't re-start the BATS forum here, but people are welcome to discuss them, their work, the situation etc freely on the existing forums whether here or in Gen MSTS etc. Perhaps we should agree on a single place (i'm happy for topics related to the current situation to be here given the implications for this sites administration) and agree that all related topics should have a 'BATS' in the title so that people can easily identify them. Topics related to general BATS subjects like their work, support etc should be put in the Gen MSTS forum as they don't really affect the operation or administration of this site as such.
Matt.
-
michaelhendle
- Very Active Forum Member
- Posts: 8189
- Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 4:15 pm
- Location: Peterborough originally Hounslow &Durban
.-
Timcourt1
- MidEast UK Author
- Posts: 2552
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: Michigan USA
- Contact:
The NBL Loco's and the 40's will be coming to UKTS on completion since Like the EH2 pack these were not handed over to BATS for release yet.
EH2 will be the full pack minus the sounds (freeware alias will be provided) and the class 89 since this will be updated as planned originally by Update for those that have the pack and on CD for those that haven't, purely so the ACLG still recieve their revenue for it.
If anyone wants to donate any money then please forward it to the ACLG, they do have paypal and it would go toward maintaining the very loco's featured in the pack.
Tim C
EH2 will be the full pack minus the sounds (freeware alias will be provided) and the class 89 since this will be updated as planned originally by Update for those that have the pack and on CD for those that haven't, purely so the ACLG still recieve their revenue for it.
If anyone wants to donate any money then please forward it to the ACLG, they do have paypal and it would go toward maintaining the very loco's featured in the pack.
Tim C
"No News is good news" - Lack of Morale Officer