Important collection of general thoughts on modelling

[CaptainBazza]

Okay, it's not official UKTS policy, but it makes sense to use this [KRS] pending a dedicated KRS forum setup. The tab immediately draws the attention of people who are interested in modelling topics relating to that sim.

A recently locked topic was getting a bit tropical, however, I don't see anything wrong with a topic of discussion where modellers say why they like modelling. If there is one truth, it's the fact that modellers are passionate about their hobby (here I put my hand up).

Is posting a screenshot, or render, of a WIP egotistical? Yep, of course it is - I am an unrepentant screenshot poster!
Is posting a screenshot, etc, a useful tool for the modeller? Yes, helpful feedback is critical, IMO. With the help of constructive criticism errors can be corrected and improvements made early in a project.
Every project is a learning experience!
Always respect the work of others.
Not all modelling programs are created equal and each has its own learning curve.
Is modelling a pain or a pleasure? Yes and Yes!
Why do we do it? Because, eventually we have to!
Do we model primarily for others? No, I don't believe we do - I think we do it for the challenge, but others gain from the end product.
Some projects are personal targets (modelling subject).
It is very difficult to model a subject which you're not sympathetic to.
Releasing a final version is like seeing the departure of an old friend.

Just some of my [random] thoughts on the topic.
Cheers Bazza

[AndiS]

Great post, wrong title.
"Important collection of general thoughts on modelling" would be appropriate.
But most likely those who should read it will read it with the misleadingly limiting title.

[tripman]

Those of us, Like me, who believe they can't do the loco modeling, get a lot of pleasure from the posts with a developing model. Especially if there is a run of screen shots from the early beginnings, with bits going on and changing. To see a model loco grow like this is almost modeling by proxy.
More power to your elbow Baz, keep up the good work.
CU Eric

[CaptainBazza]

Heh, heh, point taken, Subject changed, thanks for the suggestion.

Also, thanks Tripman, modelling has its ups and down and sometimes the support of others helps. It's a symbiotic relationship?

Certainly train simming is different to railway modelling because it requires quite heavy technical research into how locomotives and trains run. I've dabbled in the former, but never really understood the technical side until I started train simming.

It's also a fact of modelling life that some projects never get released, for one reason or another.

Regarding the (3d) modelling, the penny dropped when I realised you have to look at modelling like constructing with Lego, it's a collection of parts that make up the whole. I guess non-modellers can learn from looking at WIP shots, even if they don't get the technicalities of the actual modelling process.

But - no excuses, you don't have to start with a complex locomotive, just a simple scenery model is a good starter.



Cheers Bazza

[g0fthick]

Is posting a screenshot, or render, of a WIP egotistical?
Some believe that, i personally just use it as a means of displaying progress.

Is posting a screenshot, etc, a useful tool for the modeller?
Of course, being able to share your work is the best way of improving.

Is modelling a pain or a pleasure?
The two come hand in hand, as long as it's a pleasure to look at in the end then you're doing fine!

Why do we do it?
Everyone has their reasons, i do it partly as a hobby and partly in preparation for my future career.

Do we model primarily for others?
No, i model to improve my abilities and portfolio, but distribute to others.

Releasing a final version is like seeing the departure of an old friend.
Too true, but you can always update it or modify it later on.


I wonder what everyone's experience is in 3D?

I started modelling at the age of 16 when my ICT tutor provided me a copy of 3DS Max 7 after discussing CG graphics and the creation of Toy Story, sadly he couldn't give me a copy of Renderman
My first 6 months or so was mostly unproductive and wasted, i fiddled with it and got to know the interface, but never really undertook any tuition or tutorials which resulted in all sorts of weird modelling habits which i thankfully eliminated later on. Most of my major progress has been in the last year thanks to various tutorials, friends with knowledge and of course a year of University tuition.

Always stayed true to 3DS Max because i see no attraction to other programs, as a games modeller i generally don't need products such as ZBrush or Maya.

[AndiS]

In a better world we would swap the Lego pieces, so even the no-so-gifted (like me) can contribute.
Technical constraints, such as swapping the source files (in Gmax etc format), are not the biggest challenge. The social interaction is. It is difficult to feel proud about contributing pieces, and easy to beam when looking at something you alone did as a whole.

Learning from each other is as difficult as sharing. But it is mandatory to keep up with the bigger horizon of "the new sims". Thus, the [KRS] hype is a good starting point to start thinking about managing all the details. It is not (only) about polygon count. It takes one wizard to understand all the variations of valve gear. And another one for the dynamics of steam production. And a third for all the paraphernalia they attach to engines (ejectors & injectors, pumps, dynamos, bells & whistles).

We don't know about KRS physics, but let's assume they are more realistic/detailed than MSTS -- and we have a problem, since we need to learn more than we had to for MSTS.

Running a big knowledge server would be a nice complement to the model repository, although we need to wait for Matt to sort out first things (the model repository) first. For drawings, there is always a copyright issue, but people willing to share could compile a list of what they have. For technical details ("physics parameters") there is no such issue, since these data are public knowledge, not creative works.

The knowledge server would also help improve the climate of discussion in many a thread. For signalling, switch geometry and other aspects of railways I found that lack of comprehensive knowledge is the core of many a misunderstanding which sometimes leads to harsh disputes over non-issues.

I might be a dreamer and texture making must be the worst job of all, but in theory it would significantly promote modelling if there were a texture repository.

Funny motivation example for desert: Going over wagon mass (not an exciting physics parameter, and one which is not too hard to understand), I found one wagon loaded with blocks of stone, which would break down under the these blocks. The modeller definitely did not have the mind of a physics nut, the wagon looks good and still it is not correct.

[g0fthick]

I agree AndiS, a community who pulls together is a better community. And work developed by several people working on their specialities can often produce superb work.

Just for the record i am actually willing to distribute parts of my models if they help others learn, i'm just a little hesitant distributing whole models as they are very easy to obtain and can be passed off as their own by others.

Another thing, i'll be deleting my bump map tutorial which is on UKTS shortly in favour of a newer, clearer version which discusses various creation techniques alongside a brief look at normal mapping.

[ianmacmillan]

Funny motivation example for desert: Going over wagon mass (not an exciting physics parameter, and one which is not too hard to understand), I found one wagon loaded with blocks of stone, which would break down under the these blocks. The modeller definitely did not have the mind of a physics nut, the wagon looks good and still it is not correct.

I presume that is one of mine with the 3 large blocks.

I keep meaning to shrink it every time I see it.

My excuse is that it was one of the first I ever did.

[Backfoot2002]

I suppose I like to see the model coming together. Its intresting as to how people buidl them bit by bit. Until i saw the recent 158 thread I never though of building a model in two halves to get it identical on both sides. Hopefully one day I will advance enough to build rolling stock....

[AndiS]

I presume that is one of mine with the 3 large blocks.

I keep meaning to shrink it every time I see it.

You should put it to some museum of educational samples. It is really a great example for the hidden complexity of modelling. It looks great. It looks dead simple. Still there is a hidden problem.

[CaptainBazza]

I never though of building a model in two halves to get it identical on both sides.

It is a (very) useful technique for some objects, but can be fraught with problems, such as reversed normals, when you clone the first half and mirror it. It can play havoc with pivots, too. I use this technique now when making cabs, half the work and twice the model.

My preference is to build the model and do the artwork, but assistance with the physics saves a lot of time and testing.

Cheers Bazza

[SteelixB]

I guess that's down to which modelling program you use. Personally I've never had problems with normals when mirroring, and pivots can easily be adjusted after.

I think I managed to use this technique in TSM before I began using GMax and then 3DS Max.

[CaptainBazza]

Personally I've never had problems with normals when mirroring....

It can be unpredictable, so I've found, like making clean boolean cuts.

Cheers Bazza

[myles]

I've been modelling for a long time, its fine, great fun when you see a finished model and look back over the progress shots. . . I just miss a few key points when I do modelling.

In MSTS - I cant texture things or get them coded properly, if I don't go nuts and bin the lot in texturing, it ends up as a carbon copy of the scotsman!

In just modelling - Still, can't do materials, and lighting, lighting drives me NUTS too.

[superheatedsteam]

>I cant texture things or get them coded properly,<

I know the feeling. When I first started applying textures I was only UVW Unwrapping for several months before I realised I should be applying the appropriate UVW Map to the selected faces BEFORE I UVW Unwrapped them.

I would have to unstitch that unholy mess of faces and pain stakenly stitch them back into coherent order. Many a nights entertainment [sic] that was.

I find reading 3d modelling books a good way to learn the potential of my modelling tools as well as other techniques I could possibly apply to my modelling projects.

It paid off a couple of months ago when I used the conform tool for the first time to form an orthographic template onto a compound curve to create a snowplough. The result is just the cat pyjamas (in my eyes anyway). Sure it’s a little heavy on the polygons and the dodgy texture I applied to it masks a work of genius but I know the satisfaction I felt when applying a new technique solved a modelling problem with a satisfactory result.

Now I’m trying to find a MSTS project where I could justify the use of NURBS.