Greenpeace, Did they have a point on this one in the 80's?

peo1000 · Post by **peo1000** » Wed May 30, 2007 1:02 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHtRZ_k0s7M

In the 80's the CEGB (Central Electricity Generating Board) wanted to show that transporting nuclear waste by rail was safe, they "achieved" this by crashing a Locomotive and three carriages into an upturned nuclear flask wagon. Greenpeace actually made some pertinent points (for a change) on the CEGB's choice of locomotive other points are open to debate. My point is there founding to Greenpeace's arguaments?

Greenpeace's Pertinent point
The Peaks had their buffers and main impact zone on the bogies meaning they would push back and pole vault the loco's body over the flask thus limiting impact on the flask, as for the power unit itself beig unbolted, not sure that can ever be proved.

NiallGray · Post by **NiallGray** » Wed May 30, 2007 8:09 am

Off topic, but I remember watching this with my dad and I was devastated they chose to wreck a peak!

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Wed May 30, 2007 8:13 am

138 tonnes of locomotive - would the buffers ever be able to catapult that?

jbilton · Post by **jbilton** » Wed May 30, 2007 8:29 am

Hi
I don't know........... but can they re-do the test a few hundred times, and use all the hideous Class 66s.

Cheers
Jon

PS I was told they have an eight year life cycle.........surely some want scrapping by now.

220389 · Post by **220389** » Wed May 30, 2007 12:00 pm

shall re suggest to test the Sheds for the flasks? that would be intresting to watch.

They only have an 8 yr life?!?

Compared to the 08's, 20's and 27's that have been going for 30yrs +

ianmacmillan · Post by **ianmacmillan** » Wed May 30, 2007 1:06 pm

The give away was the choice of loco.

The 45 and 46 have the buffers mounted on the bogie.

When the buffers hit the flask it only took the weight of the bogie.
The heavy loco body simply broke the bogie fixings and slid over the flask.

So the flask only took an initial force of about 25 tons - not a train of 600 tons.

peo1000 · Post by **peo1000** » Wed May 30, 2007 1:53 pm

I thought that too, If they had used a 37 or other loco with a sub frame mounted buffer beam then that would have (most likely) pushed the loco body downward into the flask, even if it didn't then the flask would have recieved the full force of the impact before the loco lifted over it.

P.S. It would be interesting to see a crash test with the 66's but if you look at american crash tests using hood and cab units, they stand up to heavy impacting rather too well.

peo1000 · Post by **peo1000** » Wed May 30, 2007 2:05 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mHtOW-O ... ed&search=

This shows a GP9 about halfway through hitting a road lorry mounted flask. The locomotive stayed relativly intact (this loco is from the same peeps that bring us the 59's and 66's) despite its status as a write-off. the power unit did not leave the locos engine room.

alisterbetts · Post by **alisterbetts** » Wed May 30, 2007 2:12 pm

46009 - what a beast! And what a waste

BR7MT · Post by **BR7MT** » Wed May 30, 2007 2:42 pm

ianmacmillan wrote:When the buffers hit the flask it only took the weight of the bogie.
The heavy loco body simply broke the bogie fixings and slid over the flask.

Hmmm, I am not so convinced that the bogie pin sheared straightaway when the buffers impacted with the flask. However, a lot of energy would have gone into the shearing process in the fractions of a second before it broke.

Have a look at this, 49 seconds in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mHtOW-OBO4

Regards,

Dan

Beetlejuice · Post by **Beetlejuice** » Wed May 30, 2007 4:51 pm

present for you all... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHtRZ_k0s7M - BBC greenpeace coverage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_7G-By3 ... ed&search= --ITN version

wonder when a 66 will first be presevred then.....(RUNS AWAY!)

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Wed May 30, 2007 5:16 pm

Conspiracy theories....

It was just a publicity stunt anyhow. The real issue is "is it safe to transport nuclear waste by train?". And the answer to that is clearly "yes". Greenpeace would say otherwise, but they would say that wouldn't they?

Post by **martinhodgson** » Wed May 30, 2007 6:08 pm

I recall other tests involved dropping the flasks from cranes onto solid concrete - again, no damage.

The flask itself was displayed outside Heysham Power Station's visitor centre, and had only cosmetic damage. Whatever locomotive was used, the impact must still have been pretty large, and the flask did stand up well.

LNERandBR · Post by **LNERandBR** » Wed May 30, 2007 6:12 pm

CEGB organised it and therefore proberbly went to BR and said "we want the biggest and heavyest train you got" BR then gave them the peak which fitted that bill. CEGB won't understand that the peak is built differntly to other loco's

phill70 · Post by **phill70** » Wed May 30, 2007 8:10 pm

When I first saw that(years ago) my first thought was I wonder what would happen if they ran a 47 on a 1200 ton freightliner doing 75mph in to it.

Glyn

Atomic Systems

Greenpeace, Did they have a point on this one in the 80's?

Was the test Rigged by the CEGB?

Greenpeace, Did they have a point on this one in the 80's?