Australian XPT. Look familiar?

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steve74
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Australian XPT. Look familiar?

Post by steve74 »

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I knew these existed, and there are plenty of mk3 coaches running around Australia, but I had never seen one before.
(From Wikipedia)
The XPT, short for "eXpress Passenger Train", is used on key routes including the Sydney-Melbourne and Sydney-Brisbane services. The trains were built by Commonwealth Engineering, Granville (Comeng), and ABB Transportation (Bombardier Transportation) Dandenong, Victoria. The first XPTs began to enter service from 1982. The train is based on the striking High Speed Train design used by British Rail, however the XPT required substantial modifications from the High Speed Train to suit Australian conditions.

XPT power cars feature a Paxman VP185 12-cylinder, turbo-charged diesel electric engine boasting 1492 kW / 2000 horsepower. A typical XPT consist will include two power cars, one pulling and the other pushing.
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AlistairW
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Post by AlistairW »

Best Diesel Train in the world that. :D
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Post by BrianB »

A total of 19 power cars were built, the first 15 by Comeng, and the last 4 by ASEA Brown Boveri in 92-93, simply because Comeng had ceased to exist as a rolling stock builder by that time.

It really was a shame that Comeng closed - constant production disruption from union members, meant that deliveries were often late, so Comeng's customers turned to other manufacturers, and Comeng eventually ran out of work. The unionists basically shot themselves in their own foot!!! A pity, as for most of its existence, Comeng was right up there with World Class Standards in its engineering excellence.
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Post by jbilton »

Hi Brian
I would expect that any skilled workers found jobs, in better managed industries.
If a company cannot compete,and still give their workers decent conditions, they often go under.
Loss of orders is nearly always due to poor management.
At least the other company is still Australian I presume?
Better than the UK, we just gave up and buy everything from abroad these days.
Cheers
Jon

PS Steve, The XPT models have been available in MSTS for a number of years.
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Post by allypally »

ABB - the company that built the 325s and numerous other bits for BR.

Unfortunately Jon, they aren't Australians - they're based in Zurich, and are historically the result of ASEA - a Swedish company and Brown-Boveri, the Swiss company that built BR's gas turbine locomotive that now sits gutless at the Railway Age in Crewe.
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jbilton
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Post by jbilton »

allypally wrote:ABB - the company that built the 325s and numerous other bits for BR.

Unfortunately Jon, they aren't Australians - they're based in Zurich, and are historically the result of ASEA - a Swedish company and Brown-Boveri, the Swiss company that built BR's gas turbine locomotive that now sits gutless at the Railway Age in Crewe.
Hi Allypally
Thanks for that info... I didn't know.
Just goes to show though that you can still run heavy engineering, give your workers excellent conditions, and still make a profit.
Must be more efficient management.
Cheers
Jon
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BrianB
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Post by BrianB »

jbilton wrote:....I would expect that any skilled workers found jobs, in better managed industries.
If a company cannot compete,and still give their workers decent conditions, they often go under.
Loss of orders is nearly always due to poor management.
At least the other company is still Australian I presume?
Better than the UK, we just gave up and buy everything from abroad these days.....
Hello Jon,

It's not quite as straightforward as that - Comeng was one of a number of rolling stock builders within the Sydney Metro Area - basically, prior to the 70's there was Comeng (originally named Waddington's Limited), Clyde Engineering, Tulloch's and A. E. Goodwin. Prior to the 50's there were two other smaller firms, Superior Weld (merged with Goodwins) and Richie Brothers (closed 1954), both of which mainly built goods wagons.

Tulloch's, mainly manufactured suburban passenger and freight rolling stock, and closed its doors sometime in the late 60's early 70's (not sure of the exact date). They built the first of the double-deck suburban cars.

Goodwin's were just down the road (about a kilometre away) from Comeng - when they closed their doors, Comeng negotiated to take-over the Australian licenses for the Alco (American Locomotive Company) and MLW (Montreal Locomotive Works) agency from them, so by the mid-70's Sydney was down to only two rail manufacturers, Clyde and Comeng.

There was another builder, in Newcastle (Goninan's, now the licensee for GE rail equipment, and currently part of the United Group - also has a factory in Qld at Townsville and in WA at Bassendean) - Goninan's have built the bulk of new stock for NSW since the demise of Comeng.

Clyde is now called Clyde-EDI, and is still in Sydney, but they also built a manufacturing plant in the NSW west at Bathurst. Clyde-EDI was formed out of the merger of Clyde, in Granville, NSW, and Walkers in Maryborough, Qld.

I presume that most of Comeng's skilled workforce, drifted off to the other remaining builders or simply left the industry altogether.

I don't think it is a case of "If a company cannot compete,and still give their workers decent conditions, they often go under". Comeng did compete, very well with realistic tendering costs, and excellent engineering, and had fair and reasonable working conditions, at least equal with its contemporaries.

The main problem was, one sector of the workshop had a number of union agitators, causing the underlying problem. Comeng was a total 'union house', you had to be a member of a union to work there. These union 'stirrers' would call a series of 'rolling strikes', just long enough to disrupt production - then on the basis of 'brother unions', another trade would go out for half an hour, they'd come back in, then another trade go out - this went on in many cases all day. As all the work generally involved a large number of different trades being involved collaboratively with a single contract, this lead to extended build times, and consequently late deliveries.


I worked for Comeng for three years from the mid to late 70's, and experienced the strikes first hand - over those three years, I would guess that at least 10-15% of the total production time was lot to strikes - at one stage the unions even called the whole of the Engineering Design Office out with them - this is the only time in my life I have participated in a strike - a matter I had no control over - I lost two days pay because of this. It was a case of do as the union demanded, or suffer the consequences of being branded a 'scab' and black-banned from the industry. When I left the company, the very first act I did was to terminate my union membership - I have not worked for any union employer since.

The 'Loss of orders is nearly always due to poor management' - in this case, the late deliveries were a major factor in the loss of orders - the situation eventually came under some sort of control when some new management was brought in - they terminated whole sections of workers (ALL the workers in a section - no favoritism shown) then they selectively re-hired some of those workers back, without the 'union stirrers'. This tactic enable the situation to settle down a bit, but the damage had already been done, the customers started taking their business elsewhere.

The remaining manufacturers, while still essentially Australian, now have substantial ownership (often the controlling ownership) by overseas companies.
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Post by jbilton »

Hi Brian
Well there's always two sides to any story.
You may have guessed that I'm a very active Union member, certainly seen as a 'stirrer' in certain quarters.
You obviously are very against unions.
However there does beg the question, why were the 'stirrers' unhappy?
There are lots who just love to work and earn, but lets not forget its the unions who have actually made that possible.
Without their tireless campaigning all workers would still be subject to 18th century rules.
I watched a programme last night which reminded me that certain companies didn't even pay money, just chips which could only be used in the expensive company shops.
So although you don't realise it, you have to thank unions for your current lifestyle.
Perhaps if you had taken an active role in 'your' union, you may have had a better calming, influence.
Whenever I meet a member (or non member for that matter) who complains about something, I always encourage them to take a more active role.
My union UNISON staged the biggest strike in the UK, since the general strike of 1926.
I took an active part, something I am proud of, and will tell my grandchildren of. But we, the 'Branch Ex', excepted the 999 call centre on a vote of 7 to 12, so there is democracy at work.
We are in the 21st century, but lets not forget, I certainly don't, there are still countries where union 'stirrers' are killed, let alone sacked.
Interestingly the later Locos were built in a country that pays the highest wages and have the most public holidays.... but still came in at a better, or at least a competitive price. Something wrong somewhere, which I can only presume is a huge add-on for management costs?, or profits for share holders?.
Cheers
Jon
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Post by BrianB »

jbilton wrote:.........So although you don't realise it, you have to thank unions for your current lifestyle........Jon
No, I don't think so - for the last twenty five years I have been self-employed - my lifestyle is such, that if I get off my backside, work hard and do well, I'll have a reasonable lifestyle, If I don't get off my backside, I won't have a reasonable lifestyle - no unions involved in that - quite simple really - work hard, get rewarded, don't work hard, don't get rewarded!!!

Cheers, Brian
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Post by salopiangrowler »

ive never joined the union and never intend too, i dont want a finger pointing at me as if to say your a bad man you go on strike for the slightest thing and its costing people hundreds and thousands in lost earnings a revenue.

Unions are the Vain of all problems without them we would have a healthier economy.
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Post by jbilton »

BrianB wrote:
jbilton wrote:.........So although you don't realise it, you have to thank unions for your current lifestyle........Jon
No, I don't think so - for the last twenty five years I have been self-employed - my lifestyle is such, that if I get off my backside, work hard and do well, I'll have a reasonable lifestyle, If I don't get off my backside, I won't have a reasonable lifestyle - no unions involved in that - quite simple really - work hard, get rewarded, don't work hard, don't get rewarded!!!

Cheers, Brian
Hi Brian
I was trying to talk in general about the work 'lifestyle' of the developed world, not really your own individual life.
While it is admirable that self employed people work hard to better themselves and their own.
It is organised workers that have raised the general lifestyle of all workers.
If you look to countries that don't have organised workers, and see the conditions they work in.
Often they are 'all' self employed.
That is to say they turn up for work in a morning and get taken on for the day, if the bosses like their face.Or worse the boss takes a back hander.
Then they get the pleasure of working in atrocious conditions, with little health and safety.
If they don't like it, they and their families, can stave.
For this I'm grateful for all the hard work over the hundreds of years of organised workers. I'm pleased and proud to be given the opportunity to be able to help other workers in their 'hour of need'.
Through the educational system of the Unions, I'm able to understand a little of our employment laws. Laws that would only have got passed through the tireless campaigning of previous union members.
Even if this requires me to use some of my own time, I'm more than happy to freely give.
My own Union UNISON also has a general political fund.Its last great achievement was persuading the Government to ban the use of Lindane in the UK. A cheap chemical pesticide that was widely used, and could be linked to the birth of deformed babies.


http://chelus.foe.co.uk/resource/press_ ... 61612.html

Jill Day of UNISON said
“This is a major victory for the campaign to ban lindane. This shows what can be achieved when consumers and public interest groups come together.”




salopiangrowler wrote:ive never joined the union and never intend too, i dont want a finger pointing at me as if to say your a bad man you go on strike for the slightest thing and its costing people hundreds and thousands in lost earnings a revenue.

Unions are the Vain of all problems without them we would have a healthier economy.
Matt
I could be wrong... but I thought you had previously posted that your unfit to work?

Cheers
Jon
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salopiangrowler
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Post by salopiangrowler »

no maybe someone else did :)

Im not unfit to work although i am unfit. One of my mates typical welshman joins unions the minute he walks through a company door, but since he is unfit to work now.

well i do have:
Colour blindness
Epilepsy
Lack of hearing in the right ear
Tone deaf in the left ear
Cant run futher than the bus stop
and can barely lift a full shopping bag more than half a mile.

and im still fit enough for work aparently.
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crwbandrwg
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Post by crwbandrwg »

I quite resent SalopianGrowler's stereotyping, i.e. typical Welshman joining the Union as soon as he walks through the door, particularly if that's an implication that it's a really bad thing.

According to the DTI only 34.3% of Welsh employees are members of a trade union to start with (http://www.dti.gov.uk/files/file25737.pdf). If there's a reason why a stereotype persists, you must remember that Wales played a full and active part in the Industrial Revolution, and with industrialisation came the empowerment of the individual man to stand up for his working conditions, as well as political rights, through the organisation of his craft. History shows us the Welsh worker (along with his comrades in other industrialised regions of Britain) was a trailblazer for the working rights of the common man. Without the trade unions and its political wing (the Labour Party) would 1945 have heralded the NHS, free education, the welfare state? Maybe a more careful reading of modern British history might lead to you a more enlightenened position as you take for granted all of the things that have been won by the Trade Union movement.

And yes, this typical Welshman is a Union member and proud of it! Just please get some education about why :D

Carl
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Post by salopiangrowler »

im 50% welsh actually so im only stereotyping myself.

in the miners strikes alot of the welsh miners walked out and there are or were iirc more mines in wales than the whole of england and scotland put together. I could be wrong generally am im only interested in the proper wales which is anywhere from Welshpool - Holyhead.

anyway i wont go onto a welsh debate ill leave our proper boyo's to do that.
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