Hull Trains Pioneer 222103 damaged

steve74 · Post by **steve74** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:57 pm

Just reading an article on http://www.theRailwaycentre.com and it seems that 222103 while undergoing maintenance fell off the jacks sustaining serious damage, and may need two new cars to be built to replace damaged ones.

You wouldn't think it was possible. You hear of cars falling off jacks, but it must have made a hell of a noise when two 40 tonne carriages fell off. I'll bet someone got a bit of verbal for that, no matter whose fault it was.

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/UK%20Ne ... 7_222.html

BR7MT · Post by **BR7MT** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:29 pm

It was lucky that nobody was killed as a result of that jack failing. Thats going to be one expensive repair for the ROSCO, and I expect that an insurance claim would be made to the makers of the jacks in order to cover some of the costs.

May open up the interesting possibility of extra vehicles being made for the Voyager's if they have to re-open the bodyshell production line to build the two replacements.

Regards,

Dan

AlistairW · Post by **AlistairW** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:31 pm

Ouch. I read about this in Rail, apparently it dropped 6 foot!!! I assume a lot of swearing then proceeded throughout the depot.

I read they wanted to hire in a HST for VT to use and HT use a VT Voyager but that'd cost £10,000 a week which is apparently too much. But I've been told it’s not bad for a dry lease. (Dry Lease = Train no staff, Wet Lease = A fully staffed train).

Catch is, if its not repairable, Bombardier are going to have to pay huge amounts to open up the production line again!

AlistairW · Post by **AlistairW** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:33 pm

BR7MT wrote: May open up the interesting possibility of extra vehicles being made for the Voyager's if they have to re-open the bodyshell production line to build the two replacements.

Grand Central might want to slip an order in as well, although the 220/221's are different trains to the 222's aren't they?

steve74 · Post by **steve74** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:38 pm

Different, but very closely related. The cab styling is different, but I think the middle units are the same. I read an interview with a Hull Trains manager saying that the 222's were basically a Voyager with most of the reliability problems removed. He even thanked Virgin for highlighting the problems.

AlistairW · Post by **AlistairW** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:40 pm

Just a thought - if the production line was reopened, you could:

Strengthen all Voyagers to 5 car sets (Minimum)
Order more Voyagers to replace Turbostars on the routes that the XC franchise will acquire in 2008. These Turbostars could then be cascaded and possibly re-geared to work Birmingham suburban services, releasing 150's for overhaul to start replacing some of the older Pacers.
Scotrail could order some for the Glasgow - Edinburgh shuttles releasing more 170's into the highlands and you could even order some to ensure Transpennine 185's weren't being used on the WCML.

Of course, this isn't going to happen and secondly it’s hardly the answer for a country that already has thousands of empty carriages.

He even thanked Virgin for highlighting the problems.

Well, if you’re going to slate somebody’s trains as 'unreliable' you've got to be nice about it.

Good point though and I think a combined order of Voyagers and Meridians could probably be built if the price was right.

BR7MT · Post by **BR7MT** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:40 pm

I think that most of the changes between the Voyager's and the Meridian's/Pioneer's are to do with detailed design of the electronics, transmission systems and the interior. I would be surprised if the basic bodyshell design was different.

As an example - that time when a Voyager 'blew up' in Scotland because one of the large capacitors on a circuit board near the cab exploded due to gas build-up inside. This wasn't a major safety hazard on the Meridian's as the capacitor was effectively aimed down towards the track. Hence the Voyager's were modified (necessitating being taken out of service) and the Meridian's carried on running.

Regards,

Dan

spartacus · Post by **spartacus** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:29 am

"Bent like a banana" is the phrase I've heard.

Grand Central have stated that even if the production line reopens it's too late for them as they've already commited to the HSTs on the Sunderland services.

Elojikal · Post by **Elojikal** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:42 pm

Very unlikely they'd build new two new cars with the production line closed. Most likely the unit will simply be taken out of service and the remaining cars kept as spares or to be used as experimental stock in the future.

AlistairW · Post by **AlistairW** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:34 pm

Elojikal wrote:Very unlikely they'd build new two new cars with the production line closed. Most likely the unit will simply be taken out of service and the remaining cars kept as spares or to be used as experimental stock in the future.

But what then happens to Hull Trains who would then need 100% reliability from their trains?

AlistairW · Post by **AlistairW** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:36 pm

Elojikal wrote:Very unlikely they'd build new two new cars with the production line closed. Most likely the unit will simply be taken out of service and the remaining cars kept as spares or to be used as experimental stock in the future.

But what happens to Hull Trains who would then need 100% reliability from their trains?

n863dwt · Post by **n863dwt** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:18 pm

BR7MT wrote:I think that most of the changes between the Voyager's and the Meridian's/Pioneer's are to do with detailed design of the electronics, transmission systems and the interior. I would be surprised if the basic bodyshell design was different.

As an example - that time when a Voyager 'blew up' in Scotland because one of the large capacitors on a circuit board near the cab exploded due to gas build-up inside. This wasn't a major safety hazard on the Meridian's as the capacitor was effectively aimed down towards the track. Hence the Voyager's were modified (necessitating being taken out of service) and the Meridian's carried on running.

Regards,

Dan

there is a difference to the body structure as the meridians have the doors closer to the carraige ends than the voyagers.

something that mml/national express dictated in its specifications for the 222's

jonhewes · Post by **jonhewes** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:14 pm

According to a post on the wnxx forum, a HST is likely to be hired as a stop gap, with a longer term view of using a 67, MKIIIs and DVTs.

Whether there is any truth in this rumour is anyones' guess. It would be nice to see, but I really can't imagine this happening.

baggy6233 · Post by **baggy6233** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:31 pm

Ohh, 67's eh?
Might have to have a look at them when (and if) they're on.

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:21 pm

jonhewes wrote:According to a post on the wnxx forum, a HST is likely to be hired as a stop gap, with a longer term view of using a 67, MKIIIs and DVTs.

Whether there is any truth in this rumour is anyones' guess. It would be nice to see, but I really can't imagine this happening.

Rumour entirely! Bombardier are contractually obliged to provide Hull Trains with a replacement for 222103, whether this is in the form of paying hire costs for a replacement set from elsewhere, or in the form of building them two new vehicles.