Bye Bye GNER

AlistairW · Post by **AlistairW** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:18 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6182027.stm

A great shame and a great loss to the industry if they do loose the franchise, but there was no way they were going to pay back that subsidy.

jamesinbolton · Post by **jamesinbolton** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:45 am

It's a ridiculous situation, GNER has always been the favourite choice for my regular travel to Scotland despite living over the other side of the Pennines.

I'm sure the aftermath of the terrorist activities last year hasn't helped passenger numbers, then again, paying back their subsidy and the prospect of competition from 2 open access operators on their core route probably hasn't helped either!

Looks like worstgroup will be after another mainline franchise!

portbury · Post by **portbury** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:50 am

Uncle Roger was right.....

Rich

ianmacmillan · Post by **ianmacmillan** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:00 am

The perfect opertunity for network rail to take train operating in house like they did with maintainance.

One they have proved that it will save the taxpayer money by not making a profit for the shareholders they can take the other franchises in house.

Then all they have to do is change the name to British Rail.

danielw2599 · Post by **danielw2599** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:10 am

Theres some legal clause somewhere that prevents NR operating a train company. To get TOCs in house Im sure there would be a huge legal battle.

This im sure is one reason why maintenance trains are contracted out to the likes of EWS/GBRf etc etc.

(prepares a whooping from Mr Vince

)

jennings · Post by **jennings** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:14 am

A 225 set in First Neon livery ...

spartacus · Post by **spartacus** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:16 am

danielw2599 wrote:Theres some legal clause somewhere that prevents NR operating a train company. To get TOCs in house Im sure there would be a huge legal battle.

This im sure is one reason why maintenance trains are contracted out to the likes of EWS/GBRf etc etc.

(prepares a whooping from Mr Vince )

Nah, that's exactly right.

Elojikal · Post by **Elojikal** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:39 am

A sad day. Along with SWT the most highly regarded TOC in the country being ruined by the Treasury's myopic obsession with over taxing the rail industry. Everybody blames the TOCs for overbidding but nobody points the finger at the Treasury for being greedy and encouraging this.

Now Virgin will likely take over and run the service down and get a huge billion pound subsidy just because it's owned by Richard Branson and he's a saint don't you know that.

Hymek · Post by **Hymek** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:58 am

surely in theory virgin couldnt get the east coast route to scotland because they allready run the west coast and and would have a monopoly on london - scotland services right?

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:26 pm

Expect GNER to bid again, just a bit more realistically this time...

Stagecoach came 2nd last time round, so I wouldn't be shocked if they won it. Their bid was about 50% of GNERs, apparently.

The London - Scotland monopoly thing is a red herring really, as the only place which both serve with any regularity is Glasgow (which has 9 Virgin trains and 6 GNERs on a weekday, with GNER taking about 40 minutes longer than Virgin, generally). And between them they have about 10% of the air-rail market between London & Scotland anyhow.

It serves both GNER and the DfT right for offering/accepting a ridiculous bid.

AlistairW · Post by **AlistairW** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:57 pm

I think GNER made the overly high bid at a time when franchises had a tendency to be granted to the cheapest bidder, or in the DfT's view, the one which will cost least or make most. Namely 'Worst Group'.

I'm aware some people here have a distaste for GNER but personally I like them, I hope the HST upgrade work continues. They have done a lot of work on their fleet, unlike some companies, and have always tried to improve things for the passenger.

I have 2 main fears - Sorry to say it again, but First Group getting the franchise, who will no doubt run in to make a quick buck, and be fast to cut any early morning/late evening services that fail to make money. Then run the franchise into the ground.

My other fear is Virgin Group getting in and proposing HST replacement with Voyagers, which is quite likely if they won it. We really need a TOC to be driving HST 2 forward before everything has under-floor engines that are heavy and make a huge amount of noise.

Its funny to read that Virgin W/C got Â£1.4bn earlier this week to help pay towards increased track access charges.

Iâ€™d personally put out a tender for a 20 year franchise agreement with a 5 yearly performance review and give it to the most promising bidder who will make the biggest improvement for passengers.

bthornhill · Post by **bthornhill** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:09 pm

If GNER do bid again, I hope the DfT looks at the fact that GNER have successfully operated the franchise for many years, and has many satisfied customers, It's not all about money, is it???

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:14 pm

bthornhill wrote:If GNER do bid again, I hope the DfT looks at the fact that GNER have successfully operated the franchise for many years, and has many satisfied customers, It's not all about money, is it???

If you're the DfT, then yes. Look at the other franchises that have been let by them - none offer any noticable improvements (most actually offer cuts of one type or another: SWT Brighton - Basingstoke, FGW cutting just about everything in the west country...) and nice juicy premium payments.

Service improvements won't get people into cars will they?

charlierc · Post by **charlierc** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:39 pm

I have predicted this for a while now.

Still, Virgin (Anglo-Scottish), FirstGroup (London-Doncaster,York-Newcastle) and NatEx (well, it's a bit obvious) would have monopolies if they won.

Reasons:
Virgin: VWC and VXC
FirstGroup: Hull Trains and TPE
NatEx: The coach services

The DfT and Treasury basically are milking the cash cow that is the railways for all it's worth which is why GNER are going out of business and, invitabely, FGW and SWT may suffer the same fate.

It is all a big joke the way our modern railways are run and the way the DfT have run it, we would've been better off with the SRA, probably.

rowan826 · Post by **rowan826** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:11 pm

If First won franchise they combine Hull Trains and East Coast into one operation just like Virgin combined West Coast and CrossCountry into one operation called Virgin Trains.