Gradients

widdicombe · Post by **widdicombe** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:56 pm

I noticed last night that in the large amount of information provided with MSTS bin, when you press F5 3 times, there is a figure marked "elevation".

It is a lowish number in % and appears to be the gradient on the route at that particular time.

Is this correct?

If so I wonder if it is possible to make it visible in the track monitor as this would be a most valuable piece of information to the driver of a real train, and one that would be part of the "knowledge" of a particular route in the same way as signal distances are.

It would also be useful, at least in Brititsh routes, for the figure to be quoted as a ratio eg. 1% as 1 in 100.

douglee · Post by **douglee** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:10 pm

Hi All,
What a great idea. Is it possible? If not in the track monitor, then any where on screen.

GOOD LUCK

Doug

jbilton · Post by **jbilton** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:20 pm

Hi
I think this is 'Boiler elevation', which is used when calculating water contents.
I don't know if it can be used in another way.
Cheers
Jon

longbow · Post by **longbow** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:50 pm

Bolier elevation=track gradient I believe: this figure is picked up by the physics engine as input to the boiler water level calculation.

I agree this would be useful data for the Track monitor although I imagine you would only get a read on the current gradient, not what lay ahead.

douglee · Post by **douglee** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:22 am

Hi All,
I am not at all well versed in this topic but here goes.
Where does the projected speed read out calculate it's figures from?
Does this take into account the route ahead?
Maybe that read out could be adapted?

Questions need not be answered fully, they are just ideas.

GOOD LUCK

Doug

asharte · Post by **asharte** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:48 pm

Just to confirm, as far as I can see, the MSTSbin Elevation % figure is the gradient. There's a test track (from TrainSim.com I think) with very precisely defined inclines. Here's the results from two uphill runs:

MSTSbin Elevation -2.9% (-1.7deg). From route read me 2.879%;
MSTSbin Elevation -1.8% (-1.0 deg). From route read me 1.832%.

A 1 in xxx display would be useful...

The Boiler Elevation doesn't seem to change from 0.0 though.

atsf37l · Post by **atsf37l** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:13 pm

I find this to be extremely helpful, especially when navigating a new route. I agree it would be helpful to separate it out from all the brake pipe detail and other stuff on the third F5 view. Not that I mind that detail as it is a wonderful way to check the performance of the brakes on the individual cars, finding sticking brakes, etc. that need to be adjusted, but it would be super handy to have the gradient available separately or as part of the Track Monitor (F4) display. And yes, the addition of x in 100 would be handy since that is the way the Employee Time Tables list the ruling grades.

I do have one question, however. The + or - on the gradient seems to be by compass direction rather than train direction. In Beta testing a friend's route, when I was going from point A to point B (can't say where-to-where at this point

) the gradient was showing a - figure whenever I was going up hill and a + figure going down. On the return trip from point B to Point A the elevations were + for going up and - for going down.

I could be wrong but running the San Diego turn on Pacific Surfliner last night I swear the elevation showed alternating + and - figures while going UP Miramar Hill! I noticed it and thought it strange but didn't give it a lot of thought or think to go back and test it with a known grade.

Does anyone know how the plus and minus figures are used? There is nothing definitive in the manual or any of the FAQ pages that I can find. One would think it would be positive if you were going uphill and negative when going down but it doesn't seem to work that way.

A full write up on the meaning of all the values on the extended HUD screen, with the differences between steam and diesel/electric (like brake data not showing on steam!), would be really helpful.

systema · Post by **systema** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:05 pm

The elevation + or - shows the slope of the track piece depending on which way it was laid ie was the track piece slope raised or lowered by the builder. Sometimes track is removed and relaid facing the other direction and would then give an opposite + or- elevation. Therfore this elevation figure is not helpful for the track monitor.

However, when caclulating projected speed MSTS must know the correct slope figure since it always shows a slowing down when going up hill. So it may be possible somehow to glean the correct elevation say+ for up and - for going down.

The elevation figure shown is basically the information for the peice of track you are on, it also shows the curve if there is one, but this is incomplete since the curve is only given in metres but it depends on the number of degrees of the radius as well, to define the sharpness of the curve.

Mick Clarke

atsf37l · Post by **atsf37l** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:22 am

Thanks for the info, Mick. Knowing that the + or - is non specific just allows me to ignore the notation, since the physics of the train's action (slowing and needing more power or speeding up and requiring braking) will tell if the grade is up or down and the number should give the correct gradient regardless of the + or -. It is particularly helpful when running at night to determine if the grade is continuing or leveling when you can't see far enough ahead to tell.

I'd still like to know what everything is on that screen and how it is applied.