Regional Eurostars

USRailFan · Post by **USRailFan** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:04 pm

From what I've understood, the Regional Eurostars were supposed to use the East and West Coast Mainlines. Where were they supposed to join these lines, as I guess they were meant to operate to and from St Pancras as usual?

JSReeves86 · Post by **JSReeves86** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:16 pm

when the idea of regional eurostars or indeed the nightstar service, St Pancras station had not even be finally approved as the destination of HS1 as its now known (CTRL to evryone else) So my assumption would be if they were to run via london it would be waterloo and then via the west london line as if accessing North Pole dept.
Please do correct me if im wrong

JR

USRailFan · Post by **USRailFan** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:19 pm

Would they have run non-stop to Manchester/Edinburgh, or would they have had a stopping pattern similar to the HSTs/IC225s?

partyspiritz · Post by **partyspiritz** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 7:52 pm

There was some site's I found once. Try a search for eurostar forum that might help you

John

Swindon

partyspiritz · Post by **partyspiritz** » Thu Nov 16, 2006 8:14 pm

I found these

http://www.railwayforum.com/directorypage.php?id=18

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Eurostar

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/d ... 04442.hcsp

http://www.railwaypeople.com/rail-proje ... de-25.html

ianmacmillan · Post by **ianmacmillan** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 1:36 am

What killed the regional eurostars was the refusal of HM Customs to carry out on train checks.

They wanted all passengers to pass thru customs before boarding which would prevent the trains carrying internal UK passengers.
This would have meant the trains running half empty for the northern part of the run to leave room for people joining along the way which would have been unprofitable.

The alternative was to detrain passengers in London or Ashford to pass thru customs before rejoining - destroying the whole idea of a thru train.

Goverment should have insisted customs do ontrain checks like every other country in Europe.

In the event the low cost airlines creamed of any potential passengers anyway.

passedcleaner · Post by **passedcleaner** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 11:22 am

According to the plan, the Regional Eurostar service would not have made a call in London itself - no need, because Londoners could use the regular Eurostar services from Waterloo, and internal 'domestic' journeys (e.g. Crewe to London) would not have been allowed. Therefore there was no reason to set down/pick up in London.

IIRC according to my Summer 1997 timetable at home there would have been three services each way per weekday.
-Edinburgh to Paris via ECML
-Glasgow to Paris via WCML avoiding Birmingham
-Manchester to Paris via WCML and Birmingham

The 'Franco-Scottish' workings would have made similar stops to the principal expresses on each route, but then non-stop once south of York and Crewe respectively. The Manchester-Paris working would have stopped at Crewe, Stafford, Wolverhampton, Birmingham New Street, Coventry and Milton Keynes Central, before running fast to Paris.

There was also proposals for a Leeds to Brussels working but that never got advertised in the timetables.

To get from the ECML to the Channel Tunnel, the ECML working would have used the North London Line Incline from the main lines at Copenhagen tunnel to access the westbound NLL at Camden Road. Then west along the NLL to Willesden Jn High Level, and onto the southbound West London Line to Clapham Jn (changing voltage at Mitre Bridge Jn). Then under the Waterloo and Victoria main lines at Clapham, to join the Victoria - Kent Coast main line near where the current flyover out of Waterloo International joins. Then following the same course as Waterloo Eurostars they would have accessed the tunnel.

The WCML workings would have left the WCML at Willesden Jn Low Level, and climbed the incline to Mitre Bridge Junction on the West London Line. Then follow the same route as the others.

Seb

partyspiritz · Post by **partyspiritz** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 6:46 pm

A bit more info for you

14 carriages for the 7 UK regional sets

In Britain the trains are classified as Class 373 units. They were constructed by GEC-Alsthom (now Alstom) at its La Rochelle (France), Belfort (France) and Washwood Heath (England) sites. They can run on third rail and various catenary voltages, generating 12 MW of power and achieving a maximum in-service speed of 300 km/h (186.4 mph) when collecting current from 25 kV overhead catenary. They are essentially modified TGV sets, and some Eurostar trains not needed for cross-Channel runs are used in domestic TGV service by SNCF. In July 2003 a Eurostar train set a new UK rail speed record of 334.7 km/h (208.0 mph) during safety testing on the first section of the CTRL.

So there is plenty of scope for regional repaints

John

partyspiritz · Post by **partyspiritz** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:03 pm

God fingers hurt but there is more info.

GNER leased up to five North-of-London Eurostars for their London-Leeds "White-Rose" service. Just like the borrowed SNCF sets, these were stripped of their Eurostar markings; two sporting a mostly-white livery, with three sets receiving full-length GNER-style deep-navy vinyl wraps. The GNER arrangement concluded in December 2005.

It was originally intended to run "regional Eurostars", direct services to Paris and Brussels from places in the United Kingdom other than London (Manchester, Glasgow, Liverpool, Edinburgh). After raising capital for the Rail link from various UK regional councils and authorities, the proposed service was cancelled without ever starting. Influence by newly privatised companies like Virgin Trains guided the decision to determine that the service would not be viable.

Seven of the shorter Eurostar trains were completed and handed over to Eurostar. A few were operated by Great North Eastern Railway (GNER) on the East Coast Main Line from London King's Cross railway station to Leeds and York.

'Nightstar' sleeper trains were never used, and they were sold to VIA Rail in Canada, which has branded them as Renaissance Cars

That's it.

John

partyspiritz · Post by **partyspiritz** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:13 pm

The is plenty of stuff about the Nightstar below

http://www.banksofthesusquehanna.com/Nitestar.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nightstar_(train)

http://www.railroadpix.com/rrphotos/Pas ... /VIA_Rail/

http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/car ... r/pix.html

John

JSReeves86 · Post by **JSReeves86** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 7:53 pm

Just to add here are a couple of pics of the GNER Eurostars. I was lucku enough to get on the last run into and out of Leeds last December.

http://www.jrsrailwayphotography.fotopi ... 08010.html

Also found this on the furure of the North Of london sets

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/UK%20Ne ... _NofL.html

JR

phill70 · Post by **phill70** » Fri Nov 17, 2006 8:55 pm

Moved to real railways

Glyn

USRailFan · Post by **USRailFan** » Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:09 pm

My reason for asking was that I intended to use mr Longhurst's Eurostar in the ECE activities, as sort of a "what if". Does anyone know if there were ever made actual timetables for the ECML Regional Eurostars, so that I now what start time to use for the Eurostars. And where would they join the route?

Ianno · Post by **Ianno** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:16 pm

The provisional timetables were published for many years in the National Rail Timetable, with a disclaimer that the services weren't actually operating - just that they may start during the currency of the timetable, which, of course, they never did! Not sure where you could find a copy of the timetable now though.

ianmacmillan · Post by **ianmacmillan** » Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:18 pm

They built a Eurostar sevicing point at Polmadie Down sidings and I remember seeing a unit there on a test run.
It hit the platform at Cambuslang and had to wait until clearance was checked before returning.

So you have an excuse for a run up the WCML.