What's special about Woodhead?

vidal · Post by **vidal** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:32 am

Firstly, apologies as this topic is a bit of a crossover between real life and train-simming.

Woodhead was the first route that I downloaded from here, and probably the one route to which I keep going back. (Not strictly true if you saw the state of my MSTS install

, but you get the gist.) Looking over Martin's excellent screenies has really made me want to sort out the install and get driving again. All of this got me wondering, what is special about Woodhead, both in real life and in the sim?

In the real world, Woodhead was shut, but so have many other lines. It had unique traction, but so did many other places. It was scenic in parts, but, again, so are many other routes. I suppose it could be a combination of all of these, maybe even some more. With the best will in the world, and swallowing a hefty dose of reality, we have to accept that Woodhead will not reopen again as it serves no purpose now - the coal and steel from Yorkshire has gone and it serves no major population centres in between Manchester and Sheffield. Ask any enthusiast, and I'm sure that Woodhead would rank amongst one of their favourite routes, a quick straw poll amongst my freinds seemed to bear this out.

Without wanting to denigrate anyone's works, either freeware or payware (yes I know there's an argument about what constitutes freeware, but that's not for this topic), Woodhead feels right. I also don't want to start a "favourite route fight", but several posters have said lately that they still go back to play Woodhead - why is this? I love the mega routes, TM, BD, Dorset Coast et al, along with the shorter but highly detailed routes, Thaxted etc, but, is Woodhead just the right length for a quick dabble? Any thoughts?

James

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 1:02 pm

It's sort of assumed the same kind of status as the S&D. Probably because it's closure is now quite bonkers. The fact that it doesn't go anywhere between Manchester and Sheffield might be a reason to reopen, perversely - you'll have less Nimbyism for one thing.

As with all these routes which have become "legendary", there's no one factor in that. It's the whole package, and Woodhead was so unique in a variety of ways...

rwaceyw · Post by **rwaceyw** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:54 pm

It had unique traction, but so did many other places

Not as unique as Woodhead really - it was the only piece of 1500vc Overhead remaining in the country IIRC - you can't get a 76 or 77 elsewhere other than Holland!

David

Post by **codrivermike** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:20 pm

The first "Mountain" railway in the world. And, at the time of building it was the longest and highest railway tunnel in the world.
If it was reopened it would not necessarily be for passenger activities. These are already served by other routes. But it could form part of a Great Central freight route from London via Derby. This would allow more passenger pathing over the WCML and also keep slower moving freight out of the way of the Voyagers and Pendo's.
Also. Most of the infrastructure from Sheffield to Penistone is still intact. And most of the original line is still not built on. Finally, as most of the freight is diesel hauled it would not require electrifying.
BUT. The "track record" of sucessive goverments when it comes to reopening railways is somewhat limited. You have to go north of the border to see a (devolved) government that is very proactive in rebuilding and reopening closed lines.

Michael

jamesinbolton · Post by **jamesinbolton** » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:23 pm

rwaceyw wrote:
It had unique traction, but so did many other places
Not as unique as Woodhead really - it was the only piece of 1500vc Overhead remaining in the country IIRC - you can't get a 76 or 77 elsewhere other than Holland!

David

Also the first use of a locomotive in the UK to use regenerative braking, so quite forward thinking!

stevesherratt · Post by **stevesherratt** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:47 am

Hi

I always got excited trying to spot a Tommy passing over the Derby to York line .

The trips to Retford to see Deltics on the old DMU`s from Sheffield past the Class 76 stabling point at Darnall .

All Special .

Steve Nicklins Woodhead Route and the Motive Power i built for his MSTS Route .

It all has the same magical feel to it .

Proud Uktrainsim Uploader !

cheers

steve in ozz

Bluenoxid · Post by **Bluenoxid** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:37 pm

It is built to a wider gauge. It is the mostdirect route from Manchester to Sheffield.

If HS2 crosses the pennines, the woodhead route would be the best route to take

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:29 pm

Bluenoxid wrote:It is built to a wider gauge. It is the mostdirect route from Manchester to Sheffield.

If HS2 crosses the pennines, the woodhead route would be the best route to take

what are you on man. Slightly wider!!. 4ft 8 and 3/4's standard guage mate. nowt smaller nowt bigger. Tommy in the Netherland's share's track with the TGV Thalys (well amsterdam station) and that has to be standard guage for get into germany and france.

rwaceyw · Post by **rwaceyw** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:31 pm

Calm down Salopian, I think he means loading gauge

David

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:45 pm

**cough**, 'scuse me gov

if anything dave it'd be smaller judging the size of woodhead tunnel.

a tommy's pant was virtually in the down position when going through.

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:16 pm

The Great Central was built to the Berne loading gauge (1891 version - based on the then French profile). As a result it could probably take a significant proportion of 'Universal' gauge traffic, although the lower sector profile (the shape below the floor) might have needed changing - probably by cutting back platform edges. The maximum height may have been cut down as a result of the electrification - without the wires, it's probable that Universal gauge stock would be able to run.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:52 pm

mattvince wrote:The Great Central was built to the Berne loading gauge (1891 version - based on the then French profile). As a result it could probably take a significant proportion of 'Universal' gauge traffic, although the lower sector profile (the shape below the floor) might have needed changing - probably by cutting back platform edges. The maximum height may have been cut down as a result of the electrification - without the wires, it's probable that Universal gauge stock would be able to run.

And reboring woodhead tunnel. and lifting the bridge's. ive seen the video on woodhead and theres no way it could have taken the UIC guage.

when you mention GCR you talk about the whole route. in fact the loading guage is somewhat different between sheffield and manchester than the rest of the line, because of the terrain it went through.

arabiandisco · Post by **arabiandisco** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:46 am

The GC London Extension was built to Berne Loading gauge, but was the original MSLR? And of course, the big feature on Woodhead is the tunnel, which was rebuilt in the 1950s (I think, certainly post war), by which point the whole Berne Loading Gauge thing was well in the past. On the other hand, it was built for electric trains, so it may well take Universal gauge without the wires.

allypally · Post by **allypally** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:43 pm

The original MLSR, wasn't built to the Berne loading gauge, I don't think.

salopiangrowler · Post by **salopiangrowler** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:51 pm

arabiandisco wrote:The GC London Extension was built to Berne Loading gauge, but was the original MSLR? And of course, the big feature on Woodhead is the tunnel, which was rebuilt in the 1950s (I think, certainly post war), by which point the whole Berne Loading Gauge thing was well in the past. On the other hand, it was built for electric trains, so it may well take Universal gauge without the wires.

as i may stand corrected the Woodhead Tunnel is one of the Smallest Dual track tunnel's in england which just fit's standard guage. in reality the OHLE drops to an impressive 6 inches above anything that runs through the tunnel and the wires are running nearly on the tunnel walls but far enough for the Tommys pant to keep contact.