Why I hate Northern

[MoonKid47]

One thing: Brand Awareness

Why do Tesco's have their white label and their Finest range? Why do McDonald's spend millions each year on adverts and slogan's we all remember?

Its all about letting the public know them...

[davidaward]

Well in Hindley we've just had a leaflet put through the doors promoting our local station for rail use in a joint effort between GMPTE and Northern. If it weren't so cheesy it would be believable.

Spacious car park (full at 7:30am every day)
Continuous reference to off peak radically lower fares
Continuous reference to quiet comfortable trains (middle of day and obviously not 142s)
The quotes are obviously not regular users or peak time commuters!
Manchester Victoria is described as spacious, bright and welcoming (more like dark dingy and smoke filled- oh and netting to protect people if the glass panels fall down).
Frequent fast service into Manchester (only at off Peak- between 7am and 8:45 there are only 3 trains as opposed to 4 an hour off peak!)

The list goes on- made me laugh anyway............

[gswindale]

Manchester Victoria is described as spacious, bright and welcoming (more like dark dingy and smoke filled

What sort of smoke? I didn't think steam trains ran out of Manchester anymore, and it's against the law to smoke at any station (apart from Fishguard Harbour IIRC).

[geezertronic]

If it is anything like Birmingham New Street, the diesel smell and exhaust does get a bit overwhelming at times...

[davidaward]

Manchester Victoria is described as spacious, bright and welcoming (more like dark dingy and smoke filled

What sort of smoke? I didn't think steam trains ran out of Manchester anymore, and it's against the law to smoke at any station (apart from Fishguard Harbour IIRC).

It is the lack of ventilation and diesel fumes that are over powering far worse than any cigarette- it gets very bad at times. Also steam quite regularly enters Victoria station on the Cotton Mill Express trips, but usually stop with the chimney outside the covered section and doesn't cause much excess smoke.

Oh I also hate Northern because of a lack of basic professionalism these days. Some of the staff are not particularly courteous or smart in appearance nowadays- quite often I see a driver with his cab window open and a fag hanging out for example. I'm sorry but most preserved lien crews have you well beaten for basic professionalism and appearance!!

[gswindale]

quite often I see a driver with his cab window open and a fag hanging out for example.

Saw one of them at Reading the other day. Got home and fired an email of complaint off to FGW. Probably just got filed, but if enough people complain (it is illegal - he's both at a station where smoking is banned and on a train where smoking is banned), then maybe they'll start to take action.

[AlistairW]

To ask a more general question, why do all of these private franchises think that the most important thing when they take over is "rebranding" the trains and stations?
Quite honestly I wouldn't mind if the train arrived with a lime green and yellow spotted livery as long as it turned up on time!

To be fair Northern has actually taken ages to re-paint its fleet and I think some units are still yet to be done, so although this is the case with some operators it certainly isn't Northern.

[davidaward]

To ask a more general question, why do all of these private franchises think that the most important thing when they take over is "rebranding" the trains and stations?
Quite honestly I wouldn't mind if the train arrived with a lime green and yellow spotted livery as long as it turned up on time!

To be fair Northern has actually taken ages to re-paint its fleet and I think some units are still yet to be done, so although this is the case with some operators it certainly isn't Northern.

Would you want your brand splashed across a dilapidated, late running heap of scrap like a Pacer, even if it is yours???

I know I wouldn't and would take all the time i could until it had to be repainted!!!

[mendes]

One thing: Brand Awareness

Why do Tesco's have their white label and their Finest range? Why do McDonald's spend millions each year on adverts and slogan's we all remember?

Its all about letting the public know them...

Well I'm sorry but these sort of things don't register with me at all!!
If a product or service is advertised on TV then I assume it is overpriced and completely ignore it.

I would like to say what my slogan for these products is, but I don't want to get slung off the forums!!

[MoonKid47]

One thing: Brand Awareness

Why do Tesco's have their white label and their Finest range? Why do McDonald's spend millions each year on adverts and slogan's we all remember?

Its all about letting the public know them...

Well I'm sorry but these sort of things don't register with me at all!!
If a product or service is advertised on TV then I assume it is overpriced and completely ignore it.

I would like to say what my slogan for these products is, but I don't want to get slung off the forums!!

Any person with a half-decent mind knows its all cheap advertising, but most people still fall for it since they arnt as high-functioning


@davidaward:
As for late Pacers, do you actually live in the north and use them as a regular basis, or do you just take the odd one when you need to nip into town and its 2 minutes late?

As someone who usually takes trains to and from work, and regularly hears the announcements at Manchester Piccadilly for late trains, its usually my EMT 17:37 Norwich to Liverpool because its 2 cars and full to the brim. Also sometimes get delays on the Arriva Trains Wales services but the Northern ones run 95% on time out of Man Pic and even the late ones can be combi's of 142s, 150s and 156s so its not that the Pacer is such a bad unit, because if it was they wouldnt run it would they?

Sorry David, but even if you hate Pacers, they arnt as bad as you say, even if they have the ride quality of a cattle truck, at least they are on time and providing a service.

And even if you wouldnt, why arnt you the CEO of Northern Rail then if your ideas are so good? Can you find the cash to replace the Pacers with at least 30 new trains of a brand new design suitable for commuter services with a £0.06 per mile operating cost?

[davidaward]

@davidaward:
As for late Pacers, do you actually live in the north and use them as a regular basis, or do you just take the odd one when you need to nip into town and its 2 minutes late?

I end up with one most days on my commute to Salford Central from Hindley. I also commuted into Uni for 3 years on basically the same route and recently got back into the routine after 18 months working locally.

I do not begrudge Northern for using them- they have what they've inherited, no fault of their own, and fair play despite their reliability- in the main they do well to keep time most of the time- just sometimes we all just want to get home on a seat, after 9 hours hard physical graft (especially annoying when its full of office workers and shoppers on the seats), and all the good performances get forgotten for one bad moment- like last night's half hour delay.......(on a 156 this time!). They're just not a particularly good design but as you state, sadly we are stuck with them for the foreseeable future thanks to their cheapness and quantity in numbers.

Still to their credit- it beats sitting in traffic jams (most of the time!!)

[MoonKid47]

I do not begrudge Northern for using them- they have what they've inherited, no fault of their own, and fair play despite their reliability- in the main they do well to keep time most of the time- just sometimes we all just want to get home on a seat, after 9 hours hard physical graft (especially annoying when its full of office workers and shoppers on the seats), and all the good performances get forgotten for one bad moment- like last night's half hour delay.......(on a 156 this time!). They're just not a particularly good design but as you state, sadly we are stuck with them for the foreseeable future thanks to their cheapness and quantity in numbers.

Still to their credit- it beats sitting in traffic jams (most of the time!!)

I can agree with that quite a bit, although I'm more likely to run to Oxford Road and grab a seat or 2 on a Pacer than stand on an overcrowded 2-car EMT 158. It might be 10 mins extra to Warrington but at least its 10 mins sitting down....

And most timing problems I've seen is due to overcrowding and missing slots at stations. At least FTPE have it spot on with that sort of thing...

[Bruces]

well,arrivra's livery is yuck,and I do think that there should be a new company there,not any of these idea's...

[rwaceyw]

And most timing problems I've seen is due to overcrowding and missing slots at stations. At least FTPE have it spot on with that sort of thing...

How often do you use FTPE? I'm a regular user and 9/10 trains are both jammed solid and running late.

FTPE services are one of the most notorious for crowding - up there with the 170s on the Brum-Stansteds and 158s on the EMT 'Citylink' jobs.

Dave

[AlistairW]

And most timing problems I've seen is due to overcrowding and missing slots at stations. At least FTPE have it spot on with that sort of thing...

How often do you use FTPE? I'm a regular user and 9/10 trains are both jammed solid and running late.

FTPE services are one of the most notorious for crowding - up there with the 170s on the Brum-Stansteds and 158s on the EMT 'Citylink' jobs.

Dave

I agree, all of those routes listed above are very well used. It is as though no body recognises the routes as an Inter-City route, probably because they don't serve London and they're predomintaly in the North so the government isn't particually concerned. I feel that all of the major TP and ex-CityLink routes have huge potential for growth that just cannot be exploited due to a lack of rolling stock and interest from the DfT.

Cheers,
Ali