National Express merger with FirstGroup

[eastern]

From RailChat that rumour about National Express merger with FirstGroup and what happen to 'ONE' railway?

[salopiangrowler]

They will probably become First One and have tacky Barbie livery or the new nightblub neon livery, and all your trains will loose there buffet car aswell. The liverpool street norwich's will probably go over to EMU with a trolley dolley on board.

[eastern]

The Liverpool street to Norwich will operated by class 321s when the intercity lose?

[salopiangrowler]

The Liverpool street to Norwich will operated by class 321s when the intercity lose?

i wish your grammar was better although i understand what you say.

Intercity wont lose ONE dropped the intercity brand when they started.

yes i suppose 321's would take over with slight modifications

[johncard]

Errr...... wouldn't the Competition Commission have something to say about that?

John

[skipperdipper]

Well if NX did get taken over by First, I'm moving from Liverpool NOW! First Transpennine Express, First Central, First Silverlink...

Rob

[JSReeves86]

great thats all we need First Midland Mainline bet the cheap fares would dissapear as well, shame i liked traveling first class from Sheffield to London for £6.60.

JR

[jennings]

First great western are starting to offer cheap fares from the 11 June so all hope is not last if there is a takeover of national express.

[mattvince]

I have reservations over whether the Monopolies and Mergers Commission would permit the merger of National Express and FirstGroup. It gives them a virtual monopoly of the long-distance surface passenger transport market, as well as a very high level of dominance in local passenger transport. Looking purely at rail, the situation is:

National Express - 7
FirstGroup - 4 (+ Hull Trains)
Stagecoach/Virgin Rail - 4
GoVia - 2
Serco/NedRail - 2
Arriva - 1
Laing - 1
Sea Containers - 1
(Total - 22 franchises)

With a NatEx/First merger, you end up with a whopping 13 franchises in the hands of one operator, plus a near-monopoly of Birmingham's local passenger transport (it's the one issue I have with NatEx owning Central, TWM and Midland Metro - yet treating them as separate entities). The only option I could foresee for them to be allowed to merge would be for East and West Midlands, and CrossCountry to go to other operators (not FG/NatEx). Gatwick Express would likely be absorbed into a renegotiated Southern franchise - not least as it's no longer profitable. 'One' may be a serious issue - the overlap of services could be significant. Thus the FirstGroup/NatEx combined whole would total only 6 franchises out of 20 (assuming 'One' and C2C are retained). NatEx/FirstGroup would likely be out of the running for CrossCountry anyway if this merger were to happen - First CrossCountry sounds like a worst nightmare, at least Branson has a bit of vision. As for the buses in Birmingham - I'd imagine that Centro may well look at existing FG operations and start screaming for TfL-style route franchising.

See this:
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/investing- ... page_id=23

The issues over 321s to Norwich has been discussed to death. See threads passim. Of course with FirstGroup it'd definately be 321s - more money for Moir's JockoMafia...

[johncard]

Analysts believe a merger would stand a good chance of escaping a referral to the Competition Commission because the companies' bus operations do not overlap much.

But it's not as if you have several bus companies competing on individual routes anyway - apparently there's mayhem in Stockport with GM buses and Stagecoach "jostling for passengers" to Manchester. Surely the operations not overlapping much would give them more of a monopoly in this case.

John

[samuelbennett]

I think this a non starter why would they want to marge nat express has lost a few franchises so has first no reason why to mager second nat express and first and orignally bus companies. I think you find that have a single bus company per town is against some sort of act since the transport in rual towns will be monipise and the prices can be anything.

What might happen is that first group and nat express work on new franchise as partners. Dont forget that if we take london for example there is quite alot of bus operators whos contracts get constally altered i.e. 258 now in arriva hands was orginally first.

Wasnt the virgin bid for east coast franchise sent to the competion commission since they already have the west coast I belive they where told they can bid as a partner but not as a main operator since they have all of the anglo-scotish traffic.


Anyway this all speculation there has been no hard evedenic of such activites and dont forget my franchise changes are going to happen soon

[salopiangrowler]

Firstgroup used to overlap arriva in shrewsbury, if they merge with national express that means all citylink coach service's will be with first which would benefit to airports only having one operator at there stations.

Well with the exception of Cardiff international.

I think it'd be a brilliant idea and is paving the way for a Single Franchise country "Nationalisation! is staring at us in the face and we cannot see it.

[mattvince]

I think this a non starter why would they want to marge nat express has lost a few franchises so has first no reason why to mager second nat express and first and orignally bus companies. I think you find that have a single bus company per town is against some sort of act since the transport in rual towns will be monipise and the prices can be anything.

What might happen is that first group and nat express work on new franchise as partners. Dont forget that if we take london for example there is quite alot of bus operators whos contracts get constally altered i.e. 258 now in arriva hands was orginally first.

Wasnt the virgin bid for east coast franchise sent to the competion commission since they already have the west coast I belive they where told they can bid as a partner but not as a main operator since they have all of the anglo-scotish traffic.


Anyway this all speculation there has been no hard evedenic of such activites and dont forget my franchise changes are going to happen soon

Whatever the Law may say does not apply if nothing is written down (hence no evidence exists). However, the single-operator dominance of each area (except Manchester) is to all intents and purposes a cartel, agreed in smoky back rooms in pubs across the land - that's the way the industry operates - illegal as hell but as I said, no evidence! Prices are set at whatever they will get away with - take First Bristol - TWO 20% hikes in the space of less than a year. John Hibbs' advised policies have, in view of the evidence, failed.

London is a special case - reading the Tendering report for the 258, Arriva won it because they were the cheapest. Any operator can be have route(s) put out to tender if they fail to meet required levels of performance.

The Virgin East Coast bid was rejected, on the very good grounds of Anglo-Scottish rail monopoly. That is exactly the grounds that a Merger of FirstGroup and NatEx will be rejected on - because otherwise it gives them a foothold on virtually every major route, a network stretching from Penzance to Wick! Almost EVERY suburban train north from London would be FirstGroup owned, bar Chiltern. That level of ownership could possibly bring about actions against FirstGroup and/or the DfT by the European Union.

Joint bidding for franchises is unlikely - the only joint bids have been between companies with specific capabilities, either one party bringing foreign expertise and ideas and the other party bringing UK experience (DSB/EWS, Serco/NedRail, GoVia, GNER/MTR), or parties bringing experience in different types of operation (GNER/Chiltern). Both National Express and FirstGroup have all the required expertise in-house, hence joint bids would duplicate resources and capabilities - neither party can bring anything which the other does not already have. Hence if it happens, it will be a straight financial merger.

That FirstGroup are probably the worst public transport operator in the country will not help one bit. As I said, the only way to avoid a 'national monopoly' on public transport, virtually unregulated and run by an unelected management with little accountability, is for the XC, EastMids and WestMids franchises to not have First-NatEx be shortlisted.

[AlanP46]

Whatever the Law may say does not apply if nothing is written down (hence no evidence exists). However, the single-operator dominance of each area (except Manchester)

Actually, it's pretty much just one route which as proper competition - the main student corridor along oxford road. Stray much from that and you find yourself mainly in single operator territory.

UK North have started running some route 192 which has caused a bit of a stir amongst stagecoach, but in the north of Manchester it's mainly first unchallenged.

[enotayokel]

In terms of complaints about their bus operations Arriva are far worse then First :S