First Loco problem

[gnrail]

I apologise in advance if this is a well known problem. I've just started building my first loco (steam) in TSM, it consists of only a MAIN part and a pair of animated wheels so far.
After saving to MSTS I found that the consist editor crashed as soon as I attempted to display the list of steam locos to choose from. I then tried using ConBuilder with no problem and MSTS was happy to run my embryonic loco on the tracks perfectly.

But although I can now select this existing consist to use in an activity, if I try to edit it although it's image shows up ok at the bottom of the MSTS consist editor window I still get an MSTS crash if I try to view the steam loco list.

Can anyone please supply what I'm sure is a simple answer?

Thanks
gnrail

[tinsley]

Conbuilder was created because the consist editor had bugs..like the steam locos... .
Conbuilder is easy..does many clever things..and works..!!! so just use that..like 90% of us
BTW any new steam loco is good by me.. any clues??

[gnrail]

Thanks for that, I thought I might have to abandon the official editor. Having said that I'm still not happy that my file has something wrong with it. No other loco file causes this so it must be easily avoidable if you know how.

The loco is intended to be an N1 but it's my first and I'm not expecting to become the next Gresley overnight.

gnrail

[cua193]

gnrail,

usual answers; upgrade to version 1.1, don't use TSM to make texture files, use makeacewin instead.

The MAIN part should have NONE as parent, wheels should be parented to MAIN. Add a couple of body bits parented to main so that MSTS has a bit more to bite into.

The usual cause of problems like yours is texture files, use DOS naming - no spaces etc.

You might also have made an error animating or naming the wheels.

I have the opposite problem to tinsley - I've never been able to make conbuilder work properly & stick to the activity editor.

[jimmyladd]

I apologise in advance if this is a well known problem. I've just started building my first loco (steam) in TSM, it consists of only a MAIN part and a pair of animated wheels so far.
After saving to MSTS I found that the consist editor crashed as soon as I attempted to display the list of steam locos to choose from. I then tried using ConBuilder with no problem and MSTS was happy to run my embryonic loco on the tracks perfectly.

But although I can now select this existing consist to use in an activity, if I try to edit it although it's image shows up ok at the bottom of the MSTS consist editor window I still get an MSTS crash if I try to view the steam loco list.

Can anyone please supply what I'm sure is a simple answer?

Thanks
gnrail

A couple of TSM bugs to watch out for. In View 2 rapidly zoom in on the roof, if this causes lock-ups, then the usual suspect is an embeded item, ie a steam pipe or handrail that imbeds into the body, this can sometimes cause a headout rapid movement crash too. Also TSM doesn't seem to like any untextured parts when exporting, so delete or texture them. As Richard said above, never let TSM make your textures, its useless at doing that. I've never been able to get on with con builder either
Cheers
Jim

[gnrail]

I upgraded to V1.1 as soon as it appeared but I take your point about it not converting textures too well. I've just discovered that it can't do 1024x1024 and had to use AceIt instead.

I've been burning the midnight oil (addictive this loco building) and the N1 now has all 8 wheels, is fully animated and has a frame and boiler. Runs very smoothly but it still causes MSTS editor to crash if I try to list the available steam locos. If it wasn't for ConBuilder I wouldn't be able to see this thing in action at all.

Oh well, keep on keeping on.

gnrail

[cua193]

A couple of other suggestions:-

use the .eng file from a similar loco & amend it rather than use the TSM template - it has errors. It might be giving you American brakes.

Double check your heirarchy (F2) & try to make it work with the activity editor. I think it's a bad idea, if you publish the model, to have it not working with default MSTS tools.

I've had this problem with activity editor before - it's always been something so basic I'd overlooked it.

1024 textures aren't possible in TSM, your final .ace file could be 1024 x 1024. The texturing file in TSM can only be 512 - a certain amount of juggling in your graphics program is called for. It's perfectly possible to use 512 files for a loco - 1024 files are only preferable for coaching stock where you can see the join.

Can I suggest looking at the loco & coach tutorials I uploaded to steam4me - dated now but still valid.

[gnrail]

Double check your heirarchy (F2) & try to make it work with the activity editor. I think it's a bad idea, if you publish the model, to have it not working with default MSTS tools.

That was my concern. As soon as it's in anyone's trainset folder it prevents access to the steam loco list in MSTS consist editor which is going to make me very popular isn't it?

Before starting this loco I downloaded Richard Osborne's tutorial from Steam4me without which I would really be struggling.
I dumped the default ENG straight away in favour of one which provides much snappier reverser and brake controls which is becoming my basis for most locos.

The N1 doesn't have bogies (a joy to come), the 2 radial wheels are fixed so every part is parented to MAIN. I don't know what else to look at.

gnrail

[jimmyladd]

Actually thinking about it, a minor error in the eng file can cause the default msts editors to flunk it.....that would be much easier to fix if thats the problem!
Jim

[gnrail]

Unfortunately I seem to have hit another problem now
The N1 was going really well and is 80% finished when I noticed that selection of forward headout view caused an immediate MSTS crash. Rear view is ok.

I suspected a faulty part but in fact removal of any part cures this. Adding a new part causes it again (even a rear loco part). I pressed on thinking the reason could be found later but after the addition of about 2 further parts (any parts) MSTS refuses to start at all giving the error "Can't add car N1 (uid:200000) to world" followed by send/don't send of course.

Shape Viewer gives the poly count as 7544 and the shape file size is 145KB. These are well inside the limits of other UKTS models.

I must be doing something basically wrong here, could someone who can build locos in TSM please tell me what it is?
I would be happy to send them the DST file for examination or perhaps someone would let me have sight of one of their file sets so I might be able to work it out for myself

Confused of West Yorkshire (gnrail aka Roger North)

[cua193]

I still think it's your texture files - especially if you've used TSM to transfer them.

The MSTS crash is an oddie - haven't seen this before.

Assuming you've done the proper thing & saved parts as well as the .dst file try a rebuild part-by-part; chassis (main), wheels, then other parts. Check each in f2 for heirarchy etc. until it causes the problem - that's your duff part. Sometimes you have to dig deeper & change axes etc.

If that doesn't work send me the files. I can't promise whether or when but something might be evident.

[gnrail]

Problem solved. Somebody who uses Gmax told me that I should have a maximum of 64 parts each with no more than 600 polys.

I'd made wheels with 32 segments and flanges, which looked great but a pair ran to 632 polys. I've just rebuilt these with 16 segments and the problem went away.
Interesting that MSTS didn't complain until I'd added another 20 parts to the loco though.

All good fun, thanks for the help guys. Now for the cab roof......

gnrail

[cua193]

Just checked the wheels on an early T9 model which had 22 solid spokes & have 416 polys per set.

I think you probably had an error in the construction rather than too many polys - MSTS won't accept duplicated polys for example.

I've never bothered with flanges - far too many polys; nobody's ever bemoaned their absence. You can play tricks with the texture to give the impression. I use a transparent inner face these days, more texturing but it cuts the poly count.

I've made locos with 110+ parts before now - consolidating parts only as a tidy-up after texturing.