[Real] First FTR in Edinburgh

[mattvince]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4439996.stm

So, First are trying to woo passengers with fancy buses which look (vaguely - drink a pint of vodka and squint your eyes) like trams, which will have 'tracks'. Er, yes, whatever. Hasn't the elements of FTR been tried before?
Articulated Vehicles - TfL's Mercedes-Benz 'Citaro G' buses
Pay before you board/Smartcards - see above
'ftr' track - A fancy name for a bus lane?

So, excuse me for being cynical - but aren't we basically talking about a bendy-bus with a few bus lanes, just with a flashy front end?

...perhaps the most radical reconsideration of an urban transport vehicle since the Routemaster in the 1950s.

But the Routemaster was not really radical - it was a rear-door, front-engine double decker, like all other double-deck buses in 1956. Admittedly there were a lot of them, but it didn't change the fundamental design of double-deck buses. The revolution came two years later, with the Leyland Atlantean... - and as a result, shouldn't we be looking for the next Atlantean, not the next Routemaster?

If FirstGroup really want to attract passengers, try providing a service which is reliable, comfortable, affordable and accessible. Other companies (such as Blazefield, TrentBarton, Go-Ahead) are doing well with the combination of reliability, comfort and price. If FirstGroup were to listen to what's going down in each city, and match the service to demand at good quality, then they wouldn't need to be pouring money into expensive gimmicks, and Norwich wouldn't be seriously discussing re-municipalising. An FTR is all well and good, but if it's always late, it's no good at all. Companies like Blazefield and certain Go-Ahead subsidiaries have grown their share of the market by putting on properly specified normal buses (air-con, comfortable seats) - so doesn't this all make FTR excessive?

[Nemetode]

Remunicipalising in Norwich? That'll come as a shock to Norwich City Council, Norfolk County Council and First, plus the Department of Transport and the Treasury and the DTI.

Firstly, the buses in Norwich were never municipally owned. Norwich trams were run by the private British Electric Traction company until 1933. In 1932 Norwich City Council attempted to exercise it's right to acquire the trams as permitted by Act of Parliament, but it was rejected by referendum in January 1933, and so Eastern Counties acquired the trams and buses of the NET fleet in December of the year, and set up a seperate company called Norwich Omnibus Company which had a board made up of City councillors and Eastern Counties management. The company was wound up in 1955. The city never had it's own corporation fleet.

Secondly, it is prohibited by law for a Local Authority to directly operate buses itself. It would either have to set up a seperate company to operate the buses, or seek Parliamentary approval to operate buses directly, neither of which will happen. The current government is in favour of local authorities divesting themselves of their bus operators (Bournemouth being the latest one to be offered for sale) or public private partnerships. In any case, Norfolk County Council is the public transport authority for Norwich (they are also legally the Highways Authority as well although Norwich City Council manage the roads on an agency agreement) and they are responsible for tendered services within the City. That's why the Park and Ride network, and the new bus station at Surrey Street, were set up, built and operated by the County Council. Norfolk is Tory controlled, not a likely candidate for taking over the operation of buses in Norwich even if they could.

Don't confuse the dreamy rantings of some City councillors with a rose tinted view of history with what is legally and technically possible.

[mattvince]

I'm not confusing such history - all I'm saying is that Norwich are concerned by the sheer incompetance of FirstGroup in Norwich - 're-municipalising' was merely the word I could think of to describe it - so don't go trying to bite my head off over some minor piece of the history of an unremarkable city. Semantics are not the issue - the effect of First in Norwich on the transport market is the issue - and rightly or wrongly, I have it on relatively good authority that the city/county is looking at restoring some control, be that through Quality Partnerships, or to set up a seperate company to operate services, or whatever.

FirstGroup are bad all over - it's no wonder Bristol residents slip into Sean Connery impersonations when describing First Cityline. And it's a case of too much centralised management both allowing quality to deteriorate, and being out of touch with the market needs of each area. Gimmicks like FTR (which was the main point conveniantly ignored) will not do anything if they continue to operate the way they do. Effective decentralised management, such as that found at Go-Ahead subsidiaries, has yielded dramatic results without needing bells-and-whistles on the buses. This may sound like blowing the Go-Ahead trumpet, but compared to FirstGroup, anyone can see who is better.

[Nemetode]

Actually, I know senior people at the Passenger Transport Unit in Norfolk County Council and I can categorically state that the Cabinet Member for Transport on Norfolk County will NOT be seeking a Statutory Quality Contract, it is anaethama to the ruling party. They already have a voluntary Quality Bus Partnership on the no 21 and 22 routes, and are seeking to have more, voluntary contracts. There have been concerns expressed regarding the variability of First operations in Norwich, but on the whole there is a good working relationship between First and Norfolk County Council. If there wasn't, they wouldn't have won two of the Park and Ride contracts earlier this year. Quality Partnerships are voluntary agreements, Statutory Bus Partnerships are only approved by the Department for Transport where voluntary quality contracts can be proven to have failed. Given ridership in Norwich on City services has increased of late, and met the County Council's ridership targets, the D for T is unlikely to permit any compulsory quality contracts

That is direct from people in the know. First are not perfect, and I have never been a fan of their operations which are big on rhetoric and low on delivery, but the working relationships between the local authorities in Norfolk and First are not anywhere near as bad as you are portraying. Delivery within Norwich can be patchy, and elsewhere (King's Lynn for example) it is sometimes a matter for concern (such as non-flat floor buses turning up on the Quality Partnership route to Hunstanton) but Norwich is actually a good performer for First, and bus ridership in the City is increasing.

And as for Norwich being an inconsequential city, Norwich has got one of the best performing city networks outside London and the major Metropolitan centres in terms of rate of return, according to a former FEC very senior manager I have personally spoken to. That's why the Norwich City fleet is almost entirely flat floor, new and nearly new buses, and why the 25 between Norwich and the new Hospital via the University became for a while the only commercially operated 24hour service in the country (all other night services, including those in London, being subsidised by outside bodies or local Government) operated by brand new flat floor double deck buses. Also, the Excel service from King's Lynn to Lowestoft via Norwich was one of the first routes to be sent brand new air conditioned coaches within the First group, something an inconsequential city or it's bus operator wouldn't have had if it was so inconsequential.

Like I say, I'm no fan of First but I won't sit by and watch anyone accuse people I personally know and used to work with accused of wanting to take control of Norwich and Norfolk's bus services when I know they are working to create stable, working partnerships of mutual respect and understanding - even when both sides criticise each other. Neither side is perfect, but there is no kitchen coup being hatched at Martineau Lane.

[mattvince]

That's still off topic - think 'First FTR' - that's the issue that's at stake, not Norwich. Norwich was an example of First being bad - everyone has an example of First being bad. So quit yer hang up about Norwich - it ain't the centre of the known universe...

FTR is the issue - it's sucess will only happen if FirstGroup change their managment style to be responsive to the market, not just in Norwich but across the country. Other operators have done it sucessfully, but gimmicks like FTR don't keep passengers - reliability does. Yes, on paper, with dedicated bus-lanes and traffic signals, FTR should be reliable - but anything can be made to look reliable if you throw enough money at it (and it's Local Authority money - our council taxes). Other operators normally manage without networks of expensive dedicated busways - so clearly there is an issue. And then there is the question of fares - will FTR make First increase prices, or will they drop prices, and the results on ridership and route viability?

Ken's TfL has a relatively easy job by comparison - a huge market with severe disincentives for users to choose to drive into London. All they have to do is make the supply meet demand - quality is assured, at a cost. The 'regional' operators have the hard task of getting interest - forcing a mixture of unreliability with expensive capital projects relating to FTR only muddies the water.

[marcla]

well in York they've had the ftr in passenger service for a week and the amount of complaints have been beyond belief.
Heres some examples:
http://archive.thisisyork.co.uk/2006/5/10/
Some work mates were late due to people having problem with the ticketing system. It even got so bad that The bus opperator had to suspend fares on that route due to the severity of the delays.
Another gimmick from "Last" group.

[TomB]

Precisely - they're batting on about this fancy scheme, but wouldn't everyone prefer a decent service? There may be this gimmick in York but when I use First services they're still overpriced, dirty, late and with rude drivers. Concentrate on providing a decent service outside London first...