problems, problems...

[fadedGlory]

I must confess that my copy of TSTF (V 4.5.7) is not behaving itself at all. I installed it over a full installation of V4.5.1 by putting the executable in the tfts folder. I renamed 4.5.1 to something else, because I wasn’t sure if my taskbar shortcut would be pointing to the old or new version. I have a 900 Mhz Athlon PC with 384 Mb of RAM.

I loaded a scanned map and registered it with the 3-point method. The tile overlay appears to be OK (it is skewed, but I understand that that is normal).

I have the following problems when contouring:

- Erasing a contour replaces the erased area with an incorrect piece of map (originating from a few hundreds of meters away);
- Moving the mouse over a contour and right-clicking works erratically – more often nothing shows, at other times I get an incorrect contour value.

I finished my contour map regardless. Every time I exit the program, it asks me twice to save the terrain and the registration.

Later, I re-loaded the terrain and the registration and started to interpolate. More problems:

- The freehand tool comes up with an incorrect profile. Sometimes it is flat along much of its length, when the map shows contour gradients. There are regular ‘spikes’ in the contour that I cannot relate to the digitised contours.
- The Peak tool simply does nothing at all. As before, right-clicking to pick up a contour value doesn’t work. I can enter manually, but when left-clicking on the crest of the hill absolutely nothing happens.

There are two .teb files in the terrains folder – one called Lambourn.teb and the other Lambour.teb (without the ‘n’). They are both updated upon exiting. The map file and registration file are both called Lambourn.xxx (with the ‘n’)

All of this is discouraging – I spent several hours digitising contours but my guess is that they are somehow in the wrong place (although they look OK on the map). I suspect the registration has gone wrong? I used three points, UTM grid intersections converted into decimal degrees with GridInquest. The second point was some 5 km due East of the first point, the third point was some 5 km North of the first point and 1 grid square to the East (using the same Northing actually resulted in point 3 being very slightly West of point 1, something TSTF did not accept).

I hope there is a way to fix this so I can use my work after all…

fG



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: fadedGlory on 2002-05-28 03:48 ]</font>

[Zorcan]

1 Did you have nay of these problems before you upgraded ?

2 Regarding the "post-erase" problem, does the map image remain incorrect after you then scroll or re-scale ?

3 Very occasionally, the free-hand tool will appear to trace the wrong path but this shlould not be happening as the norm.

4 The peak tool needs you to click on a non-zero point which is higher (or lower for a trough) than any points immediatley around it an the "end-of-peak" height (which you ususally set with a right-click). It is easy to think you have done this correectly, but the act of clicking has actually moved the mouse off the peak.

You certainly are haveing a spate of problems. Can I ask the community to confirm 9or otherwise!) that they do not also have these problems ?

[timbooth]

I've had very few problems when contouring from an OS map, the peak tool is a little annoying in that you appear to be clicking on the peak but it doesn't recognise it - sometimes it also appears to interpolate inside itself!

I've had no problems with registration, the MSTS markers align perfectly with the contours.

I've produced over 60 square miles of terrain and over 3 map images (seamlessly), so I can vouch that TSTF does work, though it does take enormous patience (and regular back ups). Oh, and I never save after doing the fill only after doing interpolating - once you have saved it after filling then you can't easily add more interpolating lines.

Hmm, does Lambourn have anything to do with the Lambourn valley line?? See http://www.trainsimfiles.com/dnsr.html

_________________
Tim Booth
http://www.trainsimfiles.com - building UK railway history

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: timbooth on 2002-05-28 06:23 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: timbooth on 2002-05-28 06:24 ]</font>

[fadedGlory]

zorcan, I only opened V4.5.1 once to have a preview, I just installed it because it is a complete archive. I then installed V 4.5.7 straight over it before doing any serious work.

As I said, I suspect my registration is off. That might explain why it is pasting incorrect areas of the map after contour erasing. These errors remain in the contour map after saving and re-entering the SW. It would also explain the problems with right-clicking to pick up the contour hight.

Is there a way to re-register the map after having digitised all the contours?

timbooth,

Yup - the same one! I only saw your website after I had made a start on the Lambourn project. I chose that because it is local and I needed a small route to start with. If I ever get it done, I want to move on to something completely different.

I notice you are building your own tracks. I certainly don't want to go there in my first project, so I will use MSTS or Xtracks, if that has any advantages.

fG

[Zorcan]

FG,

Re-registering a contoured terrain is no problem - just pretnet you are creating a new one, load the same map, register and save the new registration file.

Quit TSTF, restart, load your actual terrain, then load the new registration file.

BUT - registration errors won't cause the map image problem you have.

To refer back to your original post - I don't understand why TSTF seems to be saving TWO terrain files - unless of course you have 2 TSTF sessions running !

[timbooth]

I get prompted to save twice as well, also would be it be possible to get TSTF to automatically open the registration when loading up a terrain? Its a tad annoying to keep loading up the registration manually.

FadedGlory: I'm only building my own track as I am not very impressed by the default track, and I also want the 6ft way look and feel (though you can also achieve this with Xtracks modular turnouts). I'm willing to share any buildings from my route if you need them - once I've built them of course.

[Zorcan]

Tim,

Thanks for posting - looks like there is a general issue with a double save prompt.

I've deliberately not automatically loaded a specific registration file, since, unlike the relationship between a terrain and a map, that between a terrain and its registration file is much looser, and often you do want to load another registation file than the one you started out with.

Perhaps the way around it is for TSTF to suggest the use of a specific file, the user then presses YES or NO to either accept it or be prompted for the file.

[fadedGlory]

zorcan,

I am considering to uninstall & reinstall TSTF to see if that cures my problems. It doesn't show up in the 'Remove Programs' list on the Control Panel - can I just delete the existing executable or is that going to do nasty things to my Registry (I have Windows 98SE)?

Can I then reimport the contents of my Maps and Terrain folders and restore my project? Or do I have to go back to square one?

fG

[fadedGlory]

tim,

Thanks for the offer! I am doing this just as a learning set, so I will at some point try my hand at some buildings as well. I will probably start at the Lambourn end since that is where the facilities used to be. If and when I produce something you are likewise welcome to a copy.

It's a small world, isn't it?

fG

[Zorcan]

FG - All you really need to do is to delete the tstf???.exe and then re-install. Any files you have created will be preserved in their current folder(s).

It is, of course, always good practice to take a backup of anything you wish to preserve before you undertake any re-installation.

All - I can confirm that, if you take the Exit option from the Terrain menu to close TSTF, you will be prompted twice for each file save. This does not happen if you use the Windows close button at top right-hand corner (which is what I always use !)

I'll fix this for the next release.

I've also double-checked the effect of perfoming an erase, and I have found no problem. This is almost certainly an artifact related to your PC's set-up.

[fadedGlory]

zorcan,

I have removed the executable and re-installed it. I have also decided to make a new start on the W part of my route. This time I used the automatic registration instead of the 3-point one.

I am slowly tracing contours, using the interpolate - horizontal and vertical line tools regularly to see if things look OK. So far they do.

The 'contour value under cursor' and 'pick up with right mouse button' now work much better than on my earlier terrain, but the erase/redraw problem is still there. I installed several different versions of display drivers without seeing any difference (I have a Hercules Prophet MX II).

I still think that there may be a problem in the registration of my first terrain, causing difficulties with picking up contour values. The erase/redraw problem may be related to my graphics card, or as you suggested to some library or other. Win98 is terrible in preserving the integrity of the installed libraries, and I have several dozens of pieces of SW installed, I don't know what to check for.

I guess that by careful tracing and very regular saving I can get by without heavy use of the erase tool. I will proceed slowly, doing one small area at the time and testing the peak tool as well.

You may want to check out 3-point registration and any possible effects on picking up the contour values?

I have less time over the next few days, but will keep you informed of progress. I'm not giving up that easily!

fG

[Zorcan]

FG,

Glad to hear you're persevering.

Picking up contour heights should not be dependant upon registration. The registration process does 2 things:

It locates and orientates the terrain in the "real world".

It tells TSTF the map scaling - importantly how many metres per map pixel apply.

It may be that the latter factor is significant. I usually work with maps that give me a resolution of about 7 metres per pixel and have no problems.

I have also checked out other users terrains, some with much higher resolutions (i.e. fewer metres per pixel)

Since TSTF uses a fixed terrain resolution of 4 metres, I would expect any detrimental effects of "too many metres per pixel" to be apparent in the maps I use.

It may be that, in attempting to pick up the height under the mouse, the mosue is actually moving off the point as you click ?

[fadedGlory]

Still no luck.

I re-digitised my map for the third time (I could find my way through those hills with my eyes closed by now!). The erase/replace error is still there; it still reads weird contour values under the cursor. Interpolation is a hit and miss game, with more misses than hits.

Sorry, it is just unusable this way.

You mentioned dll's and ocx'es. Is there anything in paricular I might need, and you could possibly send me?

As a last resort, I have an old HDD lying around somewhere. I could do a clean Win98 install on that, and test the programme from there. It would take me a good few hours, though...

fG

[Zorcan]

FG,

There are dozens of windows dlls which might be causing the problem.

TSTF comes bundled with 2 specific files which are not standard issue, everything else should be part of a regular Windows environment.

I'm sorry but I have no idea which ones may be causing your problem.