Have Hornby and Bachmann evolved yet?

[Frellis]

I am starting to see a patern with the above mentioned companys.
They seem to re-release old products and market them as new ones, with little alterations.

Hornby - Jinty, 9F, Britannia etc
Bachmann - Jubilee(it's on their website as new for 05 but still has awful valvegear), 04, Lord Nelson.

The whole thing can be summed up in one phrase,

"Same s**t, new wrapping"

If these companys are going to re-release locos at least make it a FULL upgrade, I can't stand being fobbed off with semi-upgrades eg. SEE ABOVE HORNBY LIST!!!!!

What do you guys think?

[BR7MT]

If they sell and make a profit, then who are we to argue about it.

People will still buy the Hornby 9F after the Bachmann one is released. Why? Because it will be cheaper.

The Lord Nelson is cheaper than a comparable 4-6-0 in the Bachmann catalogue that has full Blue Riband status. But it is cheaper and has less detail parts on it to break, but it still looks better than old Tri-ang models.

No doubt when the general level of detail is raised high enough it will get upgraded in a similar fashion to what Hornby are doing with some of their old models.

regards

Dan

[robin]

I don't see it as you do.

Both Bachmann and Hornby have raised the standard in British outline modelling over the last few years.

Yes there has been and always will be a certain amount of re-releasing of existing models in different names numbers etc. but both companies have released and will be entirely new models. I expect there would be someone moaning that they only produced one loco with one running number if they didn't!

A few examples I can think of are

GWR 45xx GWR 57xx (collet Version) A4 (live steam and conventional electric) LNER teak carriages Southern Q1 etc. etc. ............... Then there will be the GWR Grange later on from Hornby. Nobody has ever produced an RTR model of this class of loco.

There hav been several Diesel models as well (e.g. class 20) although some could be considered updates. the new mechanisms are superb in the Diesel with the dual flywheels etc.

Heljan too have produced some nice models like the hymek and Western.

Same **** new wrapping? You have to be kidding.

[eddief]

Unfortunantly neither Hornby nor Bachmann have the money to upgrade all their models at once (it will cost a lot in both time and money) I'm sure if they could upgrade every model to top status overnight at no extra cost they would. But they cannot afford too, nor can they afford to remove models from sale as long as they sell well (as most models are now new moulds the old 1's will still be made as long as they make money). If you look at the past 5 years just see what advancements they have made.

2000: Hornby's super detailed Merchant Navy and is still 1 of the finest RTR models ever Made.
2002 - Bachamnn A1 featuring working cartazzi bogie at the back of the engine.
2003 - Hornby Pullmans with working lights (first time in RTR UK stock)
2004 - Hornby class 50, set a new standard for UK Diesels with opening doors, working fans, working grills and a whole host of other details that makes it the finest RTR diesel made. New A4 that for once has an accurate shape and teaks that feature an amazing level of detail.
2005 - Lets see what this brings us .

As robin said "Same **** new wrapping? You have to be kidding." Get down your local model shop and compare these new models to the older 1's

[phat2003uk]

I think there should be directional working lights with every model.

[spartacus]

I have to admit the new 37s without lighting are a dissapointment when the originals have lighting, as well as the 40s which I believe were initially advertised as having lighting.

[eddief]

I have to admit the new 37s without lighting are a dissapointment when the originals have lighting, as well as the 40s which I believe were initially advertised as having lighting.

The problem with bachmann seems to be if someone gives bad reviews to something they drop it and dont improve on it, the N mogul had a fixed connector to the tender and it did not get favourable reviews so they dropped it untill the WD came along. The raised detail on the 25/1 was criticised so they went onto line printing for the deltic.

As for lights I personally have had no problems with it but others probably have (would be very hard to fit lights to a headcode disc class 20 or 44).

[Frellis]

when I say same ****, new wrapping I mean onlt to those mentioned.
I can understand the confusion here.

Anyway, I agree that they have come a long way in time and I do love what they have done with their full upgrades.
With new diesels I agree that directional lighting would be great for all new diesel locos but I don't like the fact that the new motors make hardly any noise......I love to hear a Lima 40 grinding it's gears as it wizzes past with 8 on!

Cheers
FRED

[Frellis]

Has anyone ever noticed that on the Bachmann Ivatt 2-6-2T and the WD 2-8-0 the expansion links on the valvegear (thats the bit that swings back and forth) is the wrong way round?
Are Bachmann not big on quality control or something?

Cheers
FRED

[Garthion]

I have both horby's old and new Fowler tank and I really do believe that the new model is far superior to the original, and Bachmann's Jinty, looks many times better than the old Triang model, in fact so much better that I purchased one just after Christmas for myself, the Detail on it is simply outstanding.
Of the lates releases by Hornby and Bachmann i have the following:
Bachmann:
Jinty
Crab
N Class
57XX
22XX (Collet Goods)
Warship
37/4
25
24
WD 280
and more that I can not remember at this time

Hornby:
Fowler 4P tank
Streamlined Coronation
Two Merchant Navies
Class 50 (Ark Royal, no traction tyres!)
Battle of Britain
SIX new pullmans
ONE Gresley coach (Carmine and cream)
numerous wagons

From Heljan i have one of the 47s

and from Lima a very old Flying Banana

Personally I think that the Bachmann and Hornby products of the last few years run better than any others and their detailing is simply superior to anything else!

[spartacus]

I don't like the fact that the new motors make hardly any noise......I love to hear a Lima 40 grinding it's gears as it wizzes past with 8 on!

Cheers
FRED

That's a good point! I've an old Lima 33 in green which not only sounds pretty similar to the rael thing but of I run it for long enough even smells like it! Locos aren't silent!

[eddief]

I don't like the fact that the new motors make hardly any noise......I love to hear a Lima 40 grinding it's gears as it wizzes past with 8 on!

Cheers
FRED

That's a good point! I've an old Lima 33 in green which not only sounds pretty similar to the rael thing but of I run it for long enough even smells like it! Locos aren't silent!

Personally I hate the whine from old lima motors, I think if your gears are grinding you could have a breakdown soon .

[spartacus]

It's made the noise for as long as I've had it (about 18 years) and makes the smell less often now! I rarely run it, having layouts in late 50s/early60s West Riding and 21st century Dewsbury goods!

I nearly had a heart attack when I saw how much Lima 101s and 117s go for now at Doncaster show. I've a 2 car green 101 and 3 car RR 117 which could finance 2 Bachmann 9Fs when they come out! I'll proabably keep the 101 though and just have 1 9F though