Euro Loco HST 125 Speed Fix

elephant71 · Post by **elephant71** » Mon May 06, 2002 6:31 am

Deltic2002 and others, in another thread, have commented on the difference in performance between the Euro Loco HST 125 and James Hunt's version.

I had found that the Euro Loco HST 125's top speed maxed out at about 117-118 mph (even going downhill couldn't hit more than 124mph) so I started checking the .eng file and comparing it to James Hunt's. It looked like all the Euro Loco's figures were OK (power, weight, etc.) (in fact more accurate than James') then I noticed in the friction section (about line 40) that the third value in the first line was 1mph and on James' it was -1mph. So I put the minus sign in and bingo! I could now reach the magic 125mph. So then I tried changing the maximum speed from 125mph to 145mph. With the minus sign absent, could only get a maximum 116mph. With the minus sign in, I passed through Hatfield ex Kings X at 146mph (exploring the route, you understand!) and I can throttle back to about 30-40% to maintain 125mph.

So is this just human error in the Euro Loco .eng file (no criticism intended) or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Have exhausted brain now with this (first) post so will return to 'read-only' mode to recover

Colin

[ This Message was edited by: elephant71 on 2002-05-06 07:32 ]

chrisell · Post by **chrisell** » Mon May 06, 2002 10:01 am

Hi there. As the author of the ELP I can tell you this was most likely human error on my part. I'll see if I can get JustTrains to do an official patch that fixes this so people no on regular internet forums can benefit from it too.

Chris L.

chrisell · Post by **chrisell** » Mon May 06, 2002 10:50 am

Hey elephant71 - http://www.justtrains.net accept Solo and their delivery is pretty hot. If you email me the fixed HST file I'll get JustTrains to put it on their site.....

elephant71 · Post by **elephant71** » Mon May 06, 2002 10:53 am

Thanks Chris.

I haven't so far driven anything other than the HST and the Eurostar but I like what I see. Keep up the good work!

Your second post appeared as I was typing the reply to the first. I can do, but the only problem is that changing the maximum speed to 145mph means that the overspeed (AWS) indicator does not kick in until that speed is reached, as opposed to 125mph per your original. Any preferences?

Colin

[ This Message was edited by: elephant71 on 2002-05-06 11:56 ]

[ This Message was edited by: elephant71 on 2002-05-06 12:01 ]

warriorgoku · Post by **warriorgoku** » Mon May 06, 2002 12:57 pm

Hey chris, its me Simon. I did give justtrains.net a try but it didn't say whether they accepted solo or not

. Should of looked harder, it would of saved me a few Â£ and a few weeks

.

chrisell · Post by **chrisell** » Mon May 06, 2002 4:00 pm

Colin.
So with the friction value changed, it's good but you need to alter the max. speed to 145mph?
Unfortunately, due to the way MSTS works, the overspeed indicator is pretty limited as far as I know. I think just the friction change would do it if you reckon that's okay..
Drop me a line at chris@christrains.com with the modified file.

crepello · Post by **crepello** » Tue May 07, 2002 4:28 am

Chris,

I don't think your original friction values are wrong. They're certainly not far out. Haven't tried your HST yet (got it on order), but by my reckoning an HST + 8Mk3s should only just make it above 125mph on the level at full throttle. The indicated 117-118mph that elephant71 was getting could be explained by the MSTS speed indication error (117-118mph indicated is actually 125mph or so). There's certainly no way it could do 125mph on the level at a mere 30-40% throttle.

Stuart

[ This Message was edited by: crepello on 2002-05-07 07:50 ]

warriorgoku · Post by **warriorgoku** » Tue May 07, 2002 10:32 am

The hst should barely reach 125mph under normal conditions, I think just modifying the friction value to -1 and leaving the max speed at 125mph would be he most realistic way.

elephant71 · Post by **elephant71** » Tue May 07, 2002 4:42 pm

Stuart: Thanks for info, wondered how much the HST would have "in reserve" at 125mph, clearly answer is "very little". Have been following threads about misreporting of speed, will run tests on my mid/low-range system (PIII 800) to see if I get the same discrepancy.

Chris/Simon: Agree the -1 change is the only one (if any) to make, on basis that at least MSTS thinks it is reporting the correct speed and apart from allowing 125mph to be reached, it does not appear to upset the physics in any other way. Amended .eng file on the way.

Colin

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Tue May 07, 2002 5:34 pm

I think I am right in saying the HST holds the world Diesel traction speed record on rails at 146 mph or there abouts, unless any one knows better.

_________________
Cheers Dave.

[ This Message was edited by: Kerry on 2002-05-07 18:38 ]

crepello · Post by **crepello** » Tue May 07, 2002 7:54 pm

Colin,

The point I was trying to make was that changing the +1 to -1 seriously screws up the physics if it allows the HST to do 125mph on the level with only 30-40% throttle, so I don't think it's the right way to go. What are the other friction values on that line in the .eng file?

Dave,

I believe that particular world record run was achieved with only 3 or 4 coaches, going downhill with a tailwind

Stuart

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Tue May 07, 2002 8:25 pm

Stuart,

I found it, recorded on the 12 June 1973 when the prototype 'British High Speed Train' attained a speed of 143mph over a quarter of a mile between Northallerton and Thirsk during a test, the previous day the HST had covered one mile at 141mph between Thirsk and Tollerton.

On the 6th June the same train had broken the 35-year-old British rail-speed record by maintaining 131mph for 8 miles between Northallerton and Thirsk.

After all that they were worn out pedaling that fast

crepello · Post by **crepello** » Wed May 08, 2002 1:53 am

Wasn't there a special run by one of the production series HSTs in 1984ish which did a higher speed? Or was that a London-Bristol start-stop record run type of thing? It was a long time ago...

Stuart

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Wed May 08, 2002 5:02 am

I am sure your right Stuart, I seem to remember the speed of 146mph about that time, my book only goes up to 1979, also did they do some high speed testing with the HST for the 225's?

warriorgoku · Post by **warriorgoku** » Wed May 08, 2002 5:09 am

Ok I have received the euro loco pack this morning and am truely stunned by the quality of the sounds and trains.

Now onto the matter of the hst speed, I ran the default .eng (1mph) and the modified .eng (-1mph) and I have to come to the conclusion that the more accurate is the default .eng (1mph). The hst when it did it's record breaking speed of 143mph was not the same hst that runs up and down the ecml and wcml, etc. It was infact a modified hst (not as many carriages).

Personally I am going to stick with the default one.

I will be quite busy for the rest of the day

), but could someone try doing a record breaking consist i.e. 2xclass91 locomotives and 4 mk3 carriages using the default .eng and the modified (-1mph) .eng to see what speeds are attained. If the default (1mph) record breaking consist barely reaches 143mph it is the correct .eng file.

Oh and I've been told that a russian prototype diesel broke the record with a speed of ~170mph.

edit: and too my knowledge, the hst went on a record run in the late 80's with a speed of ~147mph.
_________________
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sas simon - assistant manager - http://communities.msn.com/TrainSimulatorFanSite

[ This Message was edited by: WarriorGoku on 2002-05-08 06:10 ]