First - TOC Domination?

Backfoot2002 · Post by **Backfoot2002** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:28 pm

Got my copy of RAIL today to see that first have added their logo to the front and sides of 66716 [GBRf]. Now I might be behind which I dont think I am, but when did first start hauling freight for have control over a freight company?

Secondly I was also at Grantham and Doncaster today and saw the Hull Trains 170395 with a first logo on the front and also written on the centre car. Now im sure this is a NatEx group franchise, so Im just wondering why are First logos appreaing?

Any info will be greatly apperciated

Tomnick · Post by **Tomnick** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:43 pm

I could be completely wrong, but I think First bought out the company owning both GBRf and Hull Trains (can't remember their name now!), to get a better chance of winning the Anglia franchise?

MeridianNick · Post by **MeridianNick** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 5:49 pm

This is old news, and has been for sometime. First bought out GB Railways who at the time were bidding for Anglia franchise. With Anglia came GBRf and Hull Trains. Since Anglia was lost First were left with those two and are applying logos onto them. You need to remember it's First GBRf and First Hull Trains. Once again old news

Backfoot2002 · Post by **Backfoot2002** » Wed Sep 29, 2004 6:00 pm

Right I see, well if it so old news the how come its taken them a while to apply the logos? First are usually pretty quick at doing that.

The reaso I asked though is becuase RAIL on showed the picture and stated with loco it was on, I never saw anymore info, thanks for clearing it up though.

RichyJ · Post by **RichyJ** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 1:26 pm

First are a strange company, They run the nice yellow school buses near me in New Jersey. Not sure what else they do in the US, anyone any ideas?

tigermon · Post by **tigermon** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:39 pm

Im not sure why RAIL shown it this week actually, as I saw that Loco near Nottingham when I went to meet Nick about 3 weeks ago, so RAIL have also taken their time, just like First

divydave31 · Post by **divydave31** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 3:57 pm

RichyJ wrote:First are a strange company, They run the nice yellow school buses near me in New Jersey. Not sure what else they do in the US, anyone any ideas?

Think they only run School buses in America, but they dominate the United Kingdom, They are a bus and train operator in this country.

First recently won the rail franchise in Scotland, meaning that they will run (starting October 17 2004) 95% of the rail services in Scotland.
If First win the East Coast Main Line franchise(Edinburgh\Glasgow Scotland, to London Kings Cross) i think they will run about 97% of the railways in Scotland.
On top of the rail service in Scotland, First also operate buses in Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Aberdeen.

First is a Scottish Company based in Aberdeen, they are the Biggest bus company in the United kingdom, some areas in the UK also have now got the United States inspired Yellow School Buses.

Think they should recruite George W Bush, as he is looking towards world domination so is First i think.

Hope this helps.
Here is a link to there website, you'll find out more there.
http://www.firstgroup.com/index.php

ASIcl43 · Post by **ASIcl43** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:10 pm

First also run the croydon trams
The trams carried the first livery, but then went back to its original white and red stripes.

alex2008 · Post by **alex2008** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 1:08 pm

Rather an impressive company, defiantly better than Arriva but what does everyone else think of First as a company/service provider. First Great Western has never let me down and 90% of Firsts busses in Sheffield and new and seem pretty frequent. Are these isolated circumstances or is it pretty much the same across the board? Just wondering.

ASIcl43 · Post by **ASIcl43** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:03 pm

I quite like first. the trams are generally ontime and frequent. There is even security onboard, giving me a safer journey. Problems include graffiti FGW trains are ontime, fast, and clean with helpful and friendly staff and i have been early many times in the past. (from my experience). Transpennine express had excellent on board staff, and the train i travelled on (class 175) was clean and comfortable. and the service i travelled on from kendal to oxenholme (single line) arrived on time. First buses is quite different. In bristol, i hade to wait about an hour for a bus to come a 5pm. But in london, buses seem to be fine.

markw · Post by **markw** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 4:36 pm

First Eastern Counties are a mixed bunch. Our village has an hourly bus to Norwich which despite going through miles of marshland and the odd well-heeled Jaguar-rich village is still operated commercially, so I have to acknowledge their persistance on that front, but the vehicles used are eclectic, ranging from high-floor Volvo coaches to low floor Scania single deckers marked up for a Norwich city route, and even on occasions ex Leeds and Glasgow Olympians. It is also pretty reliable, which is good.

However, Norwich city services and other routes can be a mixed bag, and the lack of on street inspectors making sure the crews are doing their job often means crew changes are lax, driving standards erratic, timekeeping poor, not always down to traffic as many lost journeys tend to be off peak, and vehicle presentation, whilst better than it was, is still poor with route branded buses never sticking to the routes they are supposed to (and there are enough branded buses to meet each route's basic requirements, with a fleet of unbranded spares to go onto other routes or to make up the route allocation, so there is no excuse) and the cleanliness (external and internal) variable.

To be honest, Eastern Counties in Norfolk was always an area where the drivers smoked on duty (actually illegal), were slovenly and had a cavalier attitude to the job, and First haven't sorted it out - but whereas in the days of the NBC and the newly privatised Eastern Counties you didn't expect anything else, First keep banging on about "transforming travel" and trying to move the bus up market. Sadly, in Norfolk, the corporate spin is a huge joke. They are transforming travel alright - from the bus into the car.

divydave31 · Post by **divydave31** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 6:49 pm

First Glasgow have a really good bus service, but it is regulated and subsidised by Strathclyde Passenger Transport, the buses in our area run every 10 minutes.

The train service i hope will be on par with the buses service wise when First take over on October 17'th. As ive sed before NX will take some beating up here.

Backfoot2002 · Post by **Backfoot2002** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:08 pm

alex2008 wrote:Rather an impressive company, defiantly better than Arriva but what does everyone else think of First as a company/service provider. First Great Western has never let me down and 90% of Firsts busses in Sheffield and new and seem pretty frequent. Are these isolated circumstances or is it pretty much the same across the board? Just wondering.

Yes in Sheffield they are pretty frequent. Mainly the Overground services, The 41 and 52 are the most regular services running about 6 mins between one another, most of the time even closer. The 52 service was even 24 hours at one point, but I think they recently stopped that.

markw · Post by **markw** » Sat Oct 02, 2004 11:10 pm

divydave31 wrote:First Glasgow have a really good bus service, but it is regulated and subsidised by Strathclyde Passenger Transport, the buses in our area run every 10 minutes.

The train service i hope will be on par with the buses service wise when First take over on October 17'th. As ive sed before NX will take some beating up here.

Unless the setting up of the Scottish Parliament and Executive has changed the 1986 Transport Act in Scotland, most of the buses in Strathclyde won't be regulated or subsidised by SPTE as bus services run on a commercial, profit making basis. Only services that are not provided commercially, but which are socially necessary, will be put out to tender by SPTE, which usually means early morning, evening, Sundays and lesser used routes in the suburbs. However the PTE does specify the timetable and standard of service on the trains, and also works in partnership with bus operators to improve quality on busy routes, but they cannot interfere in the free market for bus services, it's expressly forbidden in the 1986 Act.

If First, Arriva and Stagecoach can't run a frequent service at a profit in Glasgow then there's no hope for them as businesses, frankly, as Glasgow traditionally has been one of the best cities outside London for bus useage.

alex2008 · Post by **alex2008** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 1:38 pm

Backfoot2002 wrote:
Yes in Sheffield they are pretty frequent. Mainly the Overground services, The 41 and 52 are the most regular services running about 6 mins between one another, most of the time even closer. The 52 service was even 24 hours at one point, but I think they recently stopped that.

Why do the busses say Overground on? I only ask as I am yet to see a bus which travels underground.