Captain Sim/Just Flight 727 Pro

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:12 pm

Before embarrasing myself asking this question on the Avsim or similar forum, does anyone here know if there is any way to modify the autopilot so it resembles the "modern" default AP setup as opposed to the antique arrangement supplied. Also, is there any way to add autothrottle as there doesn't seem to be any speed control other than manual adjustment of the throttles?

Speedbird083 · Post by **Speedbird083** » Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:47 pm

LOL... complex isn't it.

Can't help you I'm afraid. I just knuckled down and learnt the package last summer. Handflying a tri-jet at 0.75M is fun

.
The default GPS is there for you to follow if you need it, but tuning and tracking VORs at 450Kts is more entertaining

.

Lock yourself away for a month and read the manual. Read it again, then again.
Do the tutorials. Do them again. Again. And again.

It is time consuming, frustrating, annoying and occasionally these words with with a profanity before them - but it works.

I'd recommend you stay well clear of the Flight 1/Just Flight DC9-30 Pro.
In "Iron Knuckles" mode its made me cry

. Getting the Master Caution light to stay off is quite an achievement let alone fly the bloody thing.
Having to manually control cabin pressure, while accurate, isn't much fun - particularly when there are 57 varieties of other things you should have done or be doing.

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:03 pm

INHO Just Flight/Captain Sim should have given the option of the default autopilot for those who don't want quite so much reality. I was wondering if it is possible to amend the config files to change the autopilot arrangements and add the autothrottle etc. Even the VC10 from David Maltby flys with the default MS setup if you want it - that's a superb plane BTW, very flyable!

Speedbird083 · Post by **Speedbird083** » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:26 pm

Indeed. His BAC 1-11's, Tridents and VC-10s are superb.

You may want to have a look at the returns policy of JustFLight.
Perhaps the FFX-SGA 727 with a hybrid freeware panel from AVSIM or Flightsim.com might be more your thing.

Just my opinion but there is a hell of a learning curve to the C-S 727.
It's certainly not a pick-me-up and fly product like the Dreamfleet 737-400 or PSS's Airbus line.

166Driver · Post by **166Driver** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 2:09 am

That autopilot is sooooo easy to work out. Ok, so it doesn't have as many features as a standard Boeing MCP unit, but it is not that hard to use!

CaldRail · Post by **CaldRail** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 11:20 am

Oh good grief! If an airliner as antiquated as the 727 had a less than up to date autopilot then thats how it was! Cope with it. You obtained that package on the basis of realism didn't you? What next? Orville Wright contacting air traffic control and requesting flight clearance to heathrow whilst he sets his autopilot on the Wright Flyer? All airline pilots have to know how to fly their aircraft without a box of tricks to do it for him. Put the coffee down, feet off the desk and back on the rudder pedals, and find out for yourself how much skill is involved. But then I prefer things that way. I know how good or bad a pilot I am. Do I trust a rack-mount unit on my panel to do the job for me? Not bl**** likely!

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:02 pm

Now then laddie, I was simply expressing a view which I hardly feel deserved such a scathing response. If the anal rivet counters want a fully realistic autopilot then fine but us lesser mortals would prefer to have something easier to work with, for a half hour chillout on the PC. On the rare occasions these days I play MSTS I will probably switch off the AI fireman if I drive a steam loco but at least the option is there if I can't be bothered.

Perhaps Just Flight should make it clear then this add on is for "advanced users" rather than glossy pictures and feature lists which avoid mention of the autopilot systems.

In actual fact I was only originally asking if there was any way to modify the autopilot and add an autothrottle. However as a paying customer I'm entitled to express my opinion of the product, sorry if that doesn't agree with your view of how things should be. I should also mention the buggy sound in this add on which persists despite taking the steps mentioned on the JF website. For me personally this add on is a disappointment and it will be a factor influencing my purchase of any further JF add ons.

Speedbird083 · Post by **Speedbird083** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 3:58 pm

What sound issues

?

Have you posted any issues you have on the JustFlight forums?
Might be worth a try if you haven't, and try Captain-Sim's forums also.

I'm a fan of this particualr add-on, possibly just because it looks so good and the virtual cockpit is superbly modelled. Doesn't have the clickable spots as in the PMDG 737NG but thats a small issue (to me).

It is highly realistic and there is a high workload for anyone even remotely trying to fly it accurately.
While some functions of the 727 cockpit/systems aren't modelled, nevertheless there is a hell of a lot to do when theres only one of you - in a cockpit designed for three.

I'd agree that the box is slightly misleading. I don't know about yours (i've had it since the day of release) but it suggests that it is suitable for ages 3+. Either I'm incredibly slow or JustFlight have fallen foul in this area as it is my belief that no 3 year old could fly this package "correctly".

You might want to drop JF a line and see about a refund. I wouldn't judge them too harshly. I've always had good support from them and am grateful for them publishing products that I'd otherwise of stayed away from or been unable to obtain from their (download only) developers.

Post by **martinhodgson** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:01 pm

I'm sure a 3 year old could push the throttle and take off, ok so flapless, with gear down constantly and flying loop the loops, but still possible.

Speedbird083 · Post by **Speedbird083** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:02 pm

If you do wish to learn this package the instrument ratings, navigating by VOR etc. lessons in FS:CofF are a must.

If you can't navigate with them at 90Kts you've no bloody chance at 290.

Speedbird083 · Post by **Speedbird083** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:06 pm

martinhodgson wrote:I'm sure a 3 year old could push the throttle and take off, ok so flapless, with gear down constantly and flying loop the loops, but still possible.

You'll note I said "correctly".

MS suggests 3+ for FS:CofF. I'd stick a 1 infront of the 3 for 727 Pro.

Post by **martinhodgson** » Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:10 pm

A 2 may be pushing it

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 6:33 am

My ire (not that anyone takes it seriously

) in the last post was aimed at Mr. Caldrail's "Oh good grief..." sermon. I don't intend to return the add on and will persevere with it. My point simply being that it's all play pretend anyway, a bunch of pixels on a monitor that is probably as close to simulating real flight as Wing Commander was to space travel. However much of the "entertainment" value for me at leat is lost if you have to wrestle with an awkward antiquated autopilot and not having the option to use the MS AP or AT.

The sound issue is a bit more serious. On a couple of occasions the sound has dropped to a crackling static hiss out of the speakers. This is an acknowledged problem on the JF site but I updated my sound card drivers and adjusted the sound config as suggested only to have the problem still occur. It seems to occur when changing POV from spot back to the flightdeck and may possibly be linked to the voice samples which trigger at various points during taxi and flight.

I tried to sign up to JF forum a few days ago but couldn't get beyond the terms and conditions screen. To be honest there's not much point though if what I regard as fair and honest feedback is just going to be withered by the likes of Mr. Caldrail.

CaldRail · Post by **CaldRail** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:49 am

Actually the same problem occurred for me in real life. Whilst flying light aircraft was essentially fun, it remained a challenge at my skill level (ie low hours PPL). What made it a complete pain in the butt was having to deal with the real world. Procedures... procedures.... lets call Boscombe and let them know I exist... oh gawd the controller thinks I'm a military hotshot and gives orders in quickfire gibberish.. "Say again?" Now the controller thinks I'm a complete numbskull and tells me off for some obscure violation of procedures.... And I still don't understand her... "Say again?" Hey. isn't this open FIR? Oh yes. I know what squawk code means... Don't know where the transponder is.. only flew this once before.. AHA! Now to change the code whilst I'm bouncing around in turbulence.. ooh this is fun... Huh? She's demanding a readback of Tolstoys War & Peace and I'm too busy staying the right way up.. "Standby Boscombe"... I can hear the echoes of her scream from ten miles distance!

Ok, Vern, my wrist is slapped. But real flying is just as frustrating for slightly different reasons in my experience!

PS. Apologies to the RAF controller at Boscombe.

PPS. You have a very sexy voice. Any chance of a date?

I'll take that as a no then.....

bigvern · Post by **bigvern** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 9:18 pm

ROFLOL!