GWR Centenary Coach set

timbooth · Post by **timbooth** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 1:36 am

Work on my GWR Centenary Coach set is almost complete, just a few texture updates to make and then I can release the beta version for testing/preview. I've yet to build the two passenger views I had planned, but I hope to complete these within the next week - after which the V1 release will be made available.

http://www.trainsimfiles.com/products/coaches/

Christopher125 · Post by **Christopher125** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:37 am

WOW - cant wait for this one Tim, they look great

Is the loco pack still on course for release soon?

Chris

lateagain · Post by **lateagain** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:02 am

Tim,

Just Visited your link to the trainsimfiles site and read your piece on these coaches.

I wouldn't want to distract you from your endeavours in finishing these great models, but if you've got the time can you explain about the left and right handed brake coaches, and why they built a composite brake as well?

I'm afraid that my enthusiasm for coach stock is unsupported by any reference books.

Suppose writing books on such specialist areas must be a labour of love and one wonders what sort of sales figures they achieve? Probably explains the Â£30-Â£50 price tag on most books on the subject!

Any recommendations on a reasonably priced title on coaches anyone?

Looking forward to the finished product

Geoff.

ianm42 · Post by **ianm42** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:43 am

On the Southern Railway, composite brake coaches were very usefull for trains like the Atlantic Coast Express, which would leave Waterloo as a 12 to 16 coach train, but would then drop off portions along the way to be taken by another locomotive to places like Exmouth, Ilfracombe and Bude. Some of the destinations only required one carriage, so a composite coach was ideal, being a complete train on its own. I imagine the GWR had similar operations. Indeed, they also had 'slip' coaches that could be uncoupled from the end of a train while in motion. The gaurd would then use a brake handle to bring the coach to a halt in the platform of the junction station to be taken onward by another locomotive. The main express would have passed through the station at high speed.

I am sorry, but I have no idea of the difference between left and right hand brakes though.

As for books on coaching stock, the Oakwood Press range are reasonably priced, but are a small format with poor quality black and white pictures, and tend to be specialised for a particular designer or type.

timbooth · Post by **timbooth** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:00 pm

The GWR had a tradition of building left and right handed versions of brake coaches. What this meant was that the right-hand version would be situated towards or at the rear of the train, whilst the left-hand version was at the front - both with their luggage/brake ends facing outwards.
This results in the corridor being maintained on the same side along the entire train, which is the only reason I am aware of for having left/right versions.

My knowledge of GWR practice is limited, but I think brake composites were traditionally used for through-services, ie. the brake composite could be detached at one station (hence the brake required), and added to another train to a different destination. Therefore both 1st and 3rd class passengers could share the same 'through' coach, rather than providing two coaches for the same job. I don't think this applied to the Cornish Riviera Limited, which the Centenary's were built for, as it had a slip portion. The Centenary's brake composites were probably built to allow traditional practices, when not working the CRL.

Two books on GWR coaches I recommend are:

1) Great Western Coaches 1890-1954, Michael Harris
2) A Pictorial Record of Great Western Coaches Part II (1903-1948), JH Russell

Both of the above books were used as reference to the Centenary's.

These sort of books tend to be expensive as collectors push the price up. Some are reprinted, and these tend to be a bit cheaper than the older copies - which is good, if you can get a new copy before they run out.

My loco set is slowly making progress, and once the Centenary set is release I can concentrate on the loco's more. I've also been working on chuff sounds using a frequency curve, which matches the chuff rate to wheel rotation - it sounds impressive, but requires a lot of work editing sound samples (at the moment heavily cropped/altered default scotsman samples).

A beta version of the 2251 will be made available very soon.

davidaward · Post by **davidaward** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 3:32 pm

beautiful Tim, can't wait to run them on the SVR

lateagain · Post by **lateagain** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:16 pm

Tim, Ian,

Thanks for the informative description of the use of the various types of brake van.

Now you mention it I used to go as a kid to Walton-on-the-Naze. The main train, steam hauled in those days, went on to Clacton (a few miles South of Walton on the Essex Coast) and the train was split at a place called Torpe-le-Soken (now that's the sort of name that will stick in anyoneâ€™s memory for 50 odd years!). I suppose they must have had a similar arrangement.

As far as I remember that all ended with electrification.

Thanks too for the book recommendations

Geoff

ianmacmillan · Post by **ianmacmillan** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 5:59 pm

Another use of the brake composite was to provide a compartment for staff travelling passenger when the first class portion was next to the loco.
Conversely, It could provide a first class compartment for officers on second class only troop trains and for officials on similar special trains

A realy useful coach.

Christopher125 · Post by **Christopher125** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 7:01 pm

Hi Tim

Your sounds sound great

. However the Scotsman souds aren't the best for realistic engine sounds, however much they've been changed.
This website:
(http://www.steamsounds.org.uk/ http://www.steamsoundsarchive.com/) may have some recordings of appropriate engines if you want have a look.

Anyway, these carriages sound great and best of luck!
Chris

timbooth · Post by **timbooth** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:46 pm

I will be looking into using real samples, I was just experimenting with existing sounds to see what can be done before obtaining real samples.
Once the sounds have been enhanced using an equaliser and filters, they do sound more like the 2251 should - and I'm only taking 4 chuffs from a few selected samples. So far I'm just interested in the chuff, but adding conrod clatter and other mechanical noises would be ideal.

At first I wasn't sure if a frequency curve could be used so that the chuff rate matches wheel rotation, but now that I know it can be done its worth finding some samples - if the full range of the loco speed can be covered. Some samples I've found before are just starting up for example, which is only part of the range. Getting a series of samples across the entire speed range will be difficult.

Its worth the hard work though, to hear the chuffs gradually getting faster and faster - rather than the default step change that bears no relationship to speed or wheel rotation. Wheel-slipping sounds cool as well.

I've no idea if there are loco's or sound kits already available with sounds using the frequency curve method (I just don't have the time to check), but if not then there ought to be as its not that difficult - I'll post up details in the sound forum if required.

timbooth · Post by **timbooth** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:22 pm

Centenary set is now uploaded.

You need to edit the supplied consist "GWR Centenary Coach Set" to include the loco of your choice - a King typically.

simont · Post by **simont** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:13 pm

Very Nice.

simont · Post by **simont** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 10:14 pm

I'd love to see an activity using these for the GWR route actually. I might give it a go myself, but my knowledge of that era isn't great.

scefhwil · Post by **scefhwil** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:25 pm

timbooth wrote: I've no idea if there are loco's or sound kits already available with sounds using the frequency curve method (I just don't have the time to check), but if not then there ought to be as its not that difficult - I'll post up details in the sound forum if required.

I don't believe there are any Steam loco sound sets available that use frequency curves, but there are plenty of Diesel and Electric ones. I tried such a method for Steam along time ago and in fact got a set virtually up to upload standard. I thought it was great, having proper sync. But when I issued it to my beta testers they all came back and said the pitch shifting effect was far too distracting, especially at the change over of wav files. They all preferred to have steps in sound speed rather than steps in sound pitch. I ditched the work at that point. I know of a few chaps over at train-sim.com who have investigated this also, and concluded the same. However, don't let me put you off trying. As you are already aware it will take many hours of editing, so I would just say beta test early.

Have just downloaded your GWR Centenary Coach Set. Excellant work, again, and LOD use still far ahead of what anyone else is producing. Thanks for the putting the effort on that aspect, I certainly appreciated it as the performance benefits are certainly there when using the sim in the way I do.

117305 · Post by **117305** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 11:48 pm

very good coaches will look forward to putting them behind some of my gwr engines will a patch be made availble when the"full version" is availble or will we have to download the new version of them???