Alas be ready to mourn the loss of the mk.3's

n863dwt · Post by **n863dwt** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 5:51 pm

i as everyone knows love modern units..especialy the voyagers

however on friday 25/09/03 (not sure is that correct)
i boarded a virgin pendolino and i have to say...i was impressed with the stylish look but..it is lacking in comparison with the voyagers and the mk.3's

as i have posted else where on the forum..

the mk.3's should just be overhauled and used for services like north of wales services or even on slow services or fast services the pendolinos could not cover or even allow virgin to expand over certain areas into new routes

i am sure the mk.3 style coach will be in service for many years to come but they way things look not on the west coast

jjules · Post by **jjules** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:30 pm

I too shall mourn the loss of the carriages. I have NEVER travelled on a Virgin Trains service though, and will probably never will until 2007 (when I graduate, then I'll have plenty of time to roam the country)!

I really want to try the Voyagers and Pendolinos!

Post by **martinhodgson** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:52 pm

I'm looking forwards to using Pendolinos too, but the MkIIIs are nice. The problem is we are unlikely to see them in rakes as we see MkIIs, as they were all designed to be with a certain set/loco, and weren't designed to be loco hauled in the same way as the MkIIs

anamorph · Post by **anamorph** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:57 pm

Yes Martin, but, there are Mk3's designed for loco haulage - think of the class 86 Glasgow-Eustons of the 80's and similar. Not sure how many were built tho... Oh and of course the mk3 stock used on the Waverley-Queen Street push-pulls. Ive also seen a lot of mk2/3 mixed trains

jp4712 · Post by **jp4712** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 8:14 pm

martinhodgson wrote:I'm looking forwards to using Pendolinos too

Don't - if you think a Voyager is cramped, a Pandemonium is worse! I witnessed a 'handbags at ten paces' argument between two city slicker blokes who were both trying to use a laptop at the same table (impossible).

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:02 pm

Yes, they do sit there like battery hens with their noses pressed against the window.

Post by **martinhodgson** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:12 pm

jp4712 wrote:
martinhodgson wrote:I'm looking forwards to using Pendolinos too
Don't - if you think a Voyager is cramped, a Pandemonium is worse! I witnessed a 'handbags at ten paces' argument between two city slicker blokes who were both trying to use a laptop at the same table (impossible).

Well I can look forwards to it, even if I don't enjoy it

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:19 pm

I would imagine it's much like being in an aircraft but a bit lower

simont · Post by **simont** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 9:19 pm

I'm really sad about this too. The Mk3's are fantastic, and should be running on the West Coast for a few years yet, I think. I'm all for replacing trains with more modern ones, but only of the new ones are better, and I don't think the Pendolinos are.

markw · Post by **markw** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 10:26 pm

How many people here have actually travelled on a Pendolino yet?

Those that have what objectively are they like?

Those that haven't what objectively was it like when you actually went on it?

I waited until I had travelled on a Voyager before deciding that overall they are a good train and one I would like to travel in again. I haven't been in a Pendolino yet (well, not in the UK) so I'll wait until my tush hits the cush before making judgement.

snowcrashandy · Post by **snowcrashandy** » Mon Sep 29, 2003 11:39 pm

markw wrote:How many people here have actually travelled on a Pendolino yet?

Those that have what objectively are they like?

Those that haven't what objectively was it like when you actually went on it?

I waited until I had travelled on a Voyager before deciding that overall they are a good train and one I would like to travel in again. I haven't been in a Pendolino yet (well, not in the UK) so I'll wait until my tush hits the cush before making judgement.

Hmm, Voyager felt like crammed in on Queasyjet, but with a good bit of legroom but elbows at 3 O Clock with whoever was sat next to you......

Not the best train for a Bristol - Glasgow trip, Bristol - Birmingham would just about suit.

Pandemoniums, London - Birmingham, yes, London - Manchester, just about, London - Glasgow NO

markw · Post by **markw** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:09 am

snowcrashandy wrote:Hmm, Voyager felt like crammed in on Queasyjet,

Get used to it.....

!

doownyl · Post by **doownyl** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:55 am

I was on the first ever fare-paying run of a Pendolino - 390010 on the twenty-something of July 2002. Birmingham International to Piccadilly, calling at New Street only. There are many things that could be said...

Windows - initially they appear too small. One wonders why? TGVs have much larger windows, and they're built for 46mph more than the Pendos. However, after 2 minutes' travelling time, I had not at all noticed the size of window. The view was perfectly adequate (I'm 6' 2", so the window is not too short in height). As long as you get a seat by a window, and the vast majority do have a view, you'll experience no problem.

Solidity - although the train is similar to a Voyager inside, it felt - though I can't quite put my finger on specifics why - much, much more solid and like a real train than a Voyager. The latter does sometimes have a tacky plastic feel to it - I couldn't feel this at all with the Pendo. There are some 'space-age' blue lights in the vestibules, but - incredibly - they are actually done very stylishly indeed, and not at all cheap-looking as you would expect them to be (ahem, Mr Branson!).

Seats - the same as Voyagers, which people have complained about but which I find quite comfortable. There is also better legroom in the airline seats - easily enough for me and my long legs to be comfortable.

CIS - again better than Voyagers - same excellently clear announcements, and the coach-end displays are also excellent. A lot of information scrolling and displayed in real time - one of the displays in the cycle is current train speed! No 'This is Coach C' for half an hour.

Erm... what else is there? Gotta go to college now, ask questions in the thread if you want.

I hope that's objective!

mattvince · Post by **mattvince** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 11:09 am

Mark II - Thumbs down, old, tatty, dirty, dated. They look horrible, they are horrible.

Mark III - Alright, however, there is a difference between the VWC Mark IIIs and other's HST trailers. I prefer the HST trailer, I can't explain why - perhaps it's to do with the interior decor. Again, as with Mk2s, VWC's are dirty, tatty, dated. Also, the lack of consistency in colour schemes is shown, this is poor interior design, and takes away from the 'corperate image' - I give the example of the seats, surely a stylish red and grey seat cover would look better? The one thing I don't like about Mk2s and 3s are the IC70 seats. Speaking personally, the material is wrong, the shape is wrong - it isn't my favourite seat. That honour goes, in all probability, jointly to the Mk4 (a high-backed, comfortable seat) and the Eurostar seats (again, very comfortable, with a high back and footrest). However, I will say something bad about the '442s': I don't like them, the interior decor is awful, the seats are, IMHO, worse than IC70s, not good at all. Oh, and the buffet is never open! (Why have a buffet if you're only going to use a trolley!)

My experience of a Pendolino is limited, however, it looks flashy, it's quite comfortable, more so than a Voyager. I think the seats on the Voyager are still the wrong shape, a bit more ability to relax would be preferable. They are quite hard - not enough padding. The Pendolino is a small design, could be rather cramped, but preferable, in my opinion, to VWC Mark 3s.

Possibly getting close in comfort stakes are the seats in SWT's Turbostars, which only lack a comfortable headrest to make them near-perfect. And the worst I have experienced is probably the Class 158 (although the FC seats are nice), not comfortable, with no legroom. SWT's Class 159s are better.

There are good and bad seats, good and bad trains, Pendolino, in my experience, is not bad at all. I like the design (reminiscant of 30's streamliners), the interior is flashy (like stepping on to the Starship Enterprise), and the seats are alright.

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 12:21 pm

Bit puzzled with the fascination for Mk3's. They were heavily criticised when they entered service for cramped seats and not having your own window.

Enthusiasts, which I assume most here are, didn't like the non-opening windows and dull looking outside world. This applied to Mk2 D/E/F's of course.

With the lack of compartments, the world was deemed to have ended with Mk1's being phased out on main line trains.

The only plus with the Mk3's was the ride which enthusiasts didn't care about anyway as it added to the 'experience'. The air-conditioning was a bonus but wasn't neccessary most of the time. Heating was often a bonus in Mk1's and so passengers were used to minor discomforts

Mk1's also appeared to invite the passenger to get up and stretch his or her legs. The side corridor could see more passengers than seats if someone put the coach on the train, the wrong way around when passing beautiful scenery confined to the corridor side. Modern stock has a 'sit down and shut up' appearance. It's doubtful if John Betchman would've been overwhelmed with poetic thoughts with Mk3's or later coaches. Oscar Wilde would no doubt have exercised his wit though. George Orwell would've probably have thrown himself from the train but for the fact he would've been unable to.

As an enthusiast, I wouldn't want to travel in anything newer than a Mk2C and fortunately don't have to

Noticed I typed 'non-opening widows'. Edited it but it conjured up interesting thoughts which I thought I'd share with UKTS members