Pat Dalton's S&C 1930 route - converting default activit
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Pat Dalton's S&C 1930 route - converting default activit
Has anyone tried to convert the default S&C activities provided with MSTS and the v1.2 update to use with Pat Dalton's S&C 1930 route?
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duncharris
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Don't bother mate.
Just get the "Skipton-Carlisle 1920" CD - I think you can order them in the US from Tim Court http://www.uktrainsim.com/index2.php?fo ... 729875f641 - there's enough acvitivies there to keep you interested and good quality realistic too (unlike the original
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Just get the "Skipton-Carlisle 1920" CD - I think you can order them in the US from Tim Court http://www.uktrainsim.com/index2.php?fo ... 729875f641 - there's enough acvitivies there to keep you interested and good quality realistic too (unlike the original
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duncharris
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okay,
About 1930 it would be mostly ex-Midland Railway types which became standard LMS types, some of which are available exclusively in Skipton CD in MR livery (which would have all but dissappeared by 1930).
(* indicates only available on Skipton CD in MR livery - I think - sorry!)
For express passenger think 4P 4-4-0s compounds probably double-headed with 2P* 4-4-0s
A bit lower down 4Ps or 2Ps* by themselves.
Crab 2-6-0s would have been around in smaller numbers on mixed traffic.
tank engines would have been jinties and 0-4-4Ts* on lots of things.
Freight would have been handled exclusively by 0-6-0s of 4F 3F* and 2F* types (and maybe even 1F - I forget withdrawal dates)
Around 1930 the position of the numbers & identification would have been a mixture between the earlier tender numbers and the later cab numbers which were switched in 1928. Mixed traffic livery for non-express passenger types was also being introduced.
Royal Scots and pacifics would have been confined at this time to the West Coast Main Line.
William Stanier did not join the LMS as CME and start introducing new designs until 1933 and it took a while for new designs to appear. 1934 Jubilees, 1935 black fives 1936/37 or so for the 8Fs - it depends on how circa 1930 you wish to be!
Period III coaching stock did not appear until 1933 or so.
The best suggestion for activities is to use existing ones by Peter Dore (say) and then replace any stock in them (some use Southern stuff for example - a bit lost!)
About 1930 it would be mostly ex-Midland Railway types which became standard LMS types, some of which are available exclusively in Skipton CD in MR livery (which would have all but dissappeared by 1930).
(* indicates only available on Skipton CD in MR livery - I think - sorry!)
For express passenger think 4P 4-4-0s compounds probably double-headed with 2P* 4-4-0s
A bit lower down 4Ps or 2Ps* by themselves.
Crab 2-6-0s would have been around in smaller numbers on mixed traffic.
tank engines would have been jinties and 0-4-4Ts* on lots of things.
Freight would have been handled exclusively by 0-6-0s of 4F 3F* and 2F* types (and maybe even 1F - I forget withdrawal dates)
Around 1930 the position of the numbers & identification would have been a mixture between the earlier tender numbers and the later cab numbers which were switched in 1928. Mixed traffic livery for non-express passenger types was also being introduced.
Royal Scots and pacifics would have been confined at this time to the West Coast Main Line.
William Stanier did not join the LMS as CME and start introducing new designs until 1933 and it took a while for new designs to appear. 1934 Jubilees, 1935 black fives 1936/37 or so for the 8Fs - it depends on how circa 1930 you wish to be!
Period III coaching stock did not appear until 1933 or so.
The best suggestion for activities is to use existing ones by Peter Dore (say) and then replace any stock in them (some use Southern stuff for example - a bit lost!)
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watermusic
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****
I may be wrong and as there are such a knowlegeable forum members I probably am but would not the early "Patriots" have been used on this line I have been trying to find a booklet Im sure I have somewhere showing a un named patriot without "blinkers" on the S&C approaching carlisle in 1938 Im faily sure I have it somewhere but cant swear to its accuraccy as was a year before i was born. Since we got a cluster of Patriots recently on the download library I been stetching things and running them on s & C 1930 anyway and very good they look with early midland rolling stock. Suppose its just how authentic you want to be
Cheers
Watermusic
Cheers
Watermusic
working on a Turbo powered Wheelchair
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duncharris
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By the late 1930s express trains over the S&C would have been mostly in the hands of Royal Scots, Jubilees and Baby Scots (Patriots), and by that time both types of Scot would have acquired smoke deflectors. The big mixed traffic types (i.e. Black 5s and Stanier and Huges moguls) would have been around too on occasion. Compounds and 2Ps would have been cascaded down.
Coaching stock by this stage would be mostly a mixture of LMS types of all three periods with some pregroup types thrown in now and again.
Coaching stock by this stage would be mostly a mixture of LMS types of all three periods with some pregroup types thrown in now and again.
A Jinty is the 0-6-0 Fowler tank engine included in 3DTrainStuff's LMS Steam & Freight pack, right? (together with the Fowler 4F). How prototypical is the freight stock included with this add-on for the ca. 1930 period? Is it better to get the stuff available here at UKTrainSim?duncharris wrote:okay,
tank engines would have been jinties and 0-4-4Ts* on lots of things.
Freight would have been handled exclusively by 0-6-0s of 4F 3F* and 2F* types (and maybe even 1F - I forget withdrawal dates)
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jp4712
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Yep - but you can also find Jinties in LMS livery at 5028 and 6406. 4Fs in LMS livery are at UKTS file IDs 2098, 2102, 3652, 6006 and 6007. There are some lovely 2Ps at 6143 (maroon, superseded by black from 1928), 6187 (black) and 6192 (dirty maroon). 4P compounds can be found at 2604 (maroon) and 1118 (black, 1940s). Maroon is okay for the 4P compound at this date - they weren't downgraded and painted black until the mid/late thirties.USRailFan wrote:A Jinty is the 0-6-0 Fowler tank engine included in 3DTrainStuff's LMS Steam & Freight pack, right? (together with the Fowler 4F).
4Ps would have been found in 1930 just coming off the express work on to semi-fast trains, while the 2Ps would have been one rung below that used on slow passenger trains etc - bit of a generalisation, but good enough for a reasonably authentic-looking activity. Don't forget that the Midland division of the LMS (and the Midland Railway before it) would double-head a train if someone put so much as a heavy handbag on it, so you'd see loads of 2Ps and/or 4Ps double heading with almost any express over the Settle & Carlisle.
Hope that helps
Paul
Thanks heaps for the info, got myself a lot of nice locos there.jp4712 wrote:Yep - but you can also find Jinties in LMS livery at 5028 and 6406. 4Fs in LMS livery are at UKTS file IDs 2098, 2102, 3652, 6006 and 6007. There are some lovely 2Ps at 6143 (maroon, superseded by black from 1928), 6187 (black) and 6192 (dirty maroon). 4P compounds can be found at 2604 (maroon) and 1118 (black, 1940s). Maroon is okay for the 4P compound at this date - they weren't downgraded and painted black until the mid/late thirties.USRailFan wrote:A Jinty is the 0-6-0 Fowler tank engine included in 3DTrainStuff's LMS Steam & Freight pack, right? (together with the Fowler 4F).
4Ps would have been found in 1930 just coming off the express work on to semi-fast trains, while the 2Ps would have been one rung below that used on slow passenger trains etc - bit of a generalisation, but good enough for a reasonably authentic-looking activity. Don't forget that the Midland division of the LMS (and the Midland Railway before it) would double-head a train if someone put so much as a heavy handbag on it, so you'd see loads of 2Ps and/or 4Ps double heading with almost any express over the Settle & Carlisle.
Last question(s): Do anyone know of typical passenger train consists from that era (ie late 20s)? And prototypical passenger and freight ops (ie any local passenger trains, expresses that covered the entire route, etc)?
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jp4712
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Hi USRailfan
I assume we're still talking about 1930 here, and about the Settle - Carlisle line.
Firstly, please allow me to share with you some of the British codes for coach types - it'll help me with the description below and it may help you decipher some of the coach downloads on the site.
B = brake
F = First class
C - Composite (ie first and third class in same coach)
T - Third class (there was no second by then, no don't ask, it's a long story)
K - corridor (yes, really, shocking spelling!)
O - open (as in saloon)
R - Restaurant
G - erm, can't quite remember, I think it was 'baggage'
L - lavatory (for something with no through gangway to the next coach)
Coaches were (are!) described in combinations of these. So a BCK is a brake corridor composite, an FO is a First Open and a T would be a Third (no corridor, just compartments). For the full list, look at http://www.magjal.freeserve.co.uk/brcode.htm (albeit nowadays with 'T' removed and replaced with 'S' for Second).
A local on the S & C at this time might be made up of BT/T/BC. Occasionally, if it was a busy day, someone might stick an ancient carriage on the end as a strengthener, say BT/T/BC/CK.
For something a little longer, say a semi-fast, you might find BTK/CK/CO/TK/TK/BTK.
For a longer express you'd probably find something a little longer still with a restaurant car: BTK/TK/CK/CO/RF/RFO/CO/FK/BFK, plus maybe a BG at the back (full brake) at holiday times. Remember that the Midland division of the LMS (of which the S & C was a part) tended to run shorter express trains than most of the rest of the LMS and as per my previous post the Midland Railway had run a 'small engine' policy so there was lots of double heading of 4-4-0 and even 2-4-0s. The LMS did way with this and introduced larger engines such as the Jubilee and Patriot on the S & C - but not until the early/mid thirties.
I really, really can't do more than scratch the surface given that I should be working! The formations on the 1920 Skipton - Carlisle CD activities seem to me to be pretty accurate and would not have changed much by 1930 except that the ownership and livery would have changed to LMS; and some LMS standard coaches would be starting to be seen, but only replacing on a like-for-like basis (ie new CK replacing old).
There's a book somewhere entirely on this topic - I'll see if I can find it and get back to you with a link, I'm sure amazon.com will get it for you.
Hope that helps
Paul
I assume we're still talking about 1930 here, and about the Settle - Carlisle line.
Firstly, please allow me to share with you some of the British codes for coach types - it'll help me with the description below and it may help you decipher some of the coach downloads on the site.
B = brake
F = First class
C - Composite (ie first and third class in same coach)
T - Third class (there was no second by then, no don't ask, it's a long story)
K - corridor (yes, really, shocking spelling!)
O - open (as in saloon)
R - Restaurant
G - erm, can't quite remember, I think it was 'baggage'
L - lavatory (for something with no through gangway to the next coach)
Coaches were (are!) described in combinations of these. So a BCK is a brake corridor composite, an FO is a First Open and a T would be a Third (no corridor, just compartments). For the full list, look at http://www.magjal.freeserve.co.uk/brcode.htm (albeit nowadays with 'T' removed and replaced with 'S' for Second).
A local on the S & C at this time might be made up of BT/T/BC. Occasionally, if it was a busy day, someone might stick an ancient carriage on the end as a strengthener, say BT/T/BC/CK.
For something a little longer, say a semi-fast, you might find BTK/CK/CO/TK/TK/BTK.
For a longer express you'd probably find something a little longer still with a restaurant car: BTK/TK/CK/CO/RF/RFO/CO/FK/BFK, plus maybe a BG at the back (full brake) at holiday times. Remember that the Midland division of the LMS (of which the S & C was a part) tended to run shorter express trains than most of the rest of the LMS and as per my previous post the Midland Railway had run a 'small engine' policy so there was lots of double heading of 4-4-0 and even 2-4-0s. The LMS did way with this and introduced larger engines such as the Jubilee and Patriot on the S & C - but not until the early/mid thirties.
I really, really can't do more than scratch the surface given that I should be working! The formations on the 1920 Skipton - Carlisle CD activities seem to me to be pretty accurate and would not have changed much by 1930 except that the ownership and livery would have changed to LMS; and some LMS standard coaches would be starting to be seen, but only replacing on a like-for-like basis (ie new CK replacing old).
There's a book somewhere entirely on this topic - I'll see if I can find it and get back to you with a link, I'm sure amazon.com will get it for you.
Hope that helps
Paul
So that'd make the three default LMS carriages included with the Royal Scot an FO (Scotsfirstclass.wag), T (Scotsthirdclass.wag) and BG (Scotsmailcar.wag).
Offers quite a limited scope for consist creation.. :-/ And to my knowledge there is no period LMS stock available either?
I do not have Skipton - Carlisle, so unfortunately I don't have access to the consists from there...
Offers quite a limited scope for consist creation.. :-/ And to my knowledge there is no period LMS stock available either?
I do not have Skipton - Carlisle, so unfortunately I don't have access to the consists from there...
I had forgotten about the Severn Valley stock...longbow wrote:There is a whole family of excellent freeware LMS 1930s coaches by David Ball. Search the uktrainsim downloads section for "LMS Period 3". The S&C 1920s SC comes with several earlier coach sets. There are also several LMS coaches on the Severn Valley Railway CD.
Period III coaches weren't introduced until 1933 tho? A bit too late for a late 20s scenario...
