Urge to kill rising...(RE problems)

The MSTS 1 Route Editor can be a beast to use, but it's capable of some amazing results, here you can talk with the wizards that are building some of the fantastic routes available and learn how to make your own.

Moderator: Moderators

Locked
User avatar
pepsipowell
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 896
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:07 am
Location: skiing! (probably)

Urge to kill rising...(RE problems)

Post by pepsipowell »

I have been working on Waterloo/Clapham Junction area for a while now and keep hiting the same :evil: problem. Once I place signals at Waterloo, the route will no longer start around Southampton, another areas. This has been happening for a while, as I have now restored backups and resignalled Waterloo FIVE times :o , with the same results, and even rebuilt all the track there from scratch (something nobody should have to do again :( ), again to no avail. Trying a track database rebuild made it freeze wherever I started, rather than just Southampton. :evil:

As it looks like this problem may stop me finishing the route :cry: , there are two possible options, should I:

1. Struggle on blindly regardless, hoping to stumble on a solution
2. Release it now and continue to struggle for a solution.
3. Release the route as it is, with full signals/speed limits to just before Clapham Junction, but trackwork only to Waterloo, and wait for the (supposedly improved) MSTS 2 editor, in the hope of finding a solution.


Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. :)

Jonathan 8)
Last edited by pepsipowell on Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Last edited by the ghost of Christmas future on 25 Dec 2054 22:06; edited 13 times in total
Top
User avatar
Bigant
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 1220
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Midlands, CC5 and Burton Derby Author

Post by Bigant »

Could be the number of items on the tile, when you put the signals in you're going over the limit (600k) sugest a few at a time and see how it goes.

Don
Author Cannock Chase, Black Country 1,
Burton, Derby & District route, co-author Scottish Central plus route. Now working on Stoke - Nottingham route an upgrade to Burton Derby route
Top
User avatar
gopher
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Just about here >

Post by gopher »

Sounds as though it maybe a corrupt TDB to me. How much ram have you got Jonathan? Large routes need a fair amount for rebuilds. Alan Heath (Alan2) posted a lot of recommendations regarding rebuilding the TDB. Have a search for his posts.
Got to do a TDB rebuild myself before the CD version of the Bala Hub ships. Some slight signal logic corruption between Llan Festiniog and Blaenau. Don't worry anyone writing activities, it won’t affect them.
I have been working on Waterloo/Clapham Junction area ----and even rebuilt all the track there from scratch
Tip for all route builders. Don't do anything drastic, ask on here first.

Gordon
Top
User avatar
alan2
Peak Rail Route Author
Posts: 5512
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Secret Routebuilders Castle lost on the way to the toilet!

Post by alan2 »

Restrict the search to the route building forum to get the best list of results :)

Gordon, Sounds like you're thinking like me with the Tdb. ;)

Manually tweak it to keep compatibility? :D
Alan Heath
Why does DOS never Say Excelent Command or filename ?!!?!??
To Err is human, computers output the errors at higher speed.
Top
User avatar
pepsipowell
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 896
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:07 am
Location: skiing! (probably)

rebuild tdb

Post by pepsipowell »

Bigant:

Is the maximum number of objects 600000 per tile, or does this refer to something else? Also, I'm sure there are more objects around Clapham Junction than at Waterloo. Finally, I'm not sure why too many objects at the London End stops it working at the Southampton end only (I can still start from Waterloo). I'll check anyway to see.

gopher:

I have 320k of RAM, but the rebuild completes ok (apart from resetting signal junction links in one or two places, but this hasn't given problems before), it is when I try to start the simulator that it always freezes.

Thankyou for replies so far! :)

Jonathan 8)
Top
User avatar
gopher
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Just about here >

Post by gopher »

That freeze sounds like the backup files being reinstated. Do you delete the four files with the BK extension and the TDB file before rebuilding?

Gordon
Top
User avatar
pepsipowell
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 896
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:07 am
Location: skiing! (probably)

rebuild

Post by pepsipowell »

Ok, I'll try that...

Jonathan 8)
Top
User avatar
Bigant
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 1220
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Midlands, CC5 and Burton Derby Author

Post by Bigant »

No 600k is the size in bytes not the item count which can go to 1500 per tile, no doubt someone has managed to get more,but it can go unstable
at the 600k mark, also it can affect the frame rates.

Don
Author Cannock Chase, Black Country 1,
Burton, Derby & District route, co-author Scottish Central plus route. Now working on Stoke - Nottingham route an upgrade to Burton Derby route
Top
User avatar
pepsipowell
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 896
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:07 am
Location: skiing! (probably)

still more problems

Post by pepsipowell »

gopher:

I tried deleting the backup files first, the rebuild completed ok, but the game itself still froze again wherever you start. :evil:

Bigant:

I assume you mean the .w files in the World folder (excuse lack of knowledge :oops: ) - only one is over 600k, but that is Eastleigh (at 621k), which works fine, and always has. Waterloo and Clapham Junction are the next biggest, but are less at about 500k, and eveything else is smaller. The tile object count for both is only about 700-800. Also, there is no scenery, so the only thing I can remove to lower the count is trackwork... :-?

I am now wondering whether MSTS has a built in limit for the number of signals you can place in total. I think that I am at about the 500 signals mark (80 miles of track, signals every three-quarters of a mile, mostly quadruple track, some large stations with many signals). Has anyone else found a limit, or gone way beyond this?

Jonathan 8)
Top
User avatar
gopher
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2001 12:00 am
Location: Just about here >

Post by gopher »

Jonathan did you delete the TDB file as well as the BK ones?

Gordon
Top
User avatar
pepsipowell
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 896
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:07 am
Location: skiing! (probably)

oops!

Post by pepsipowell »

oops!

I'll try again... :roll:

Jonathan 8)
Top
User avatar
Bigant
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 1220
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Midlands, CC5 and Burton Derby Author

Post by Bigant »

I wonder i you have any vector errors, try deleting and replacing any trackwork (points) near where you're having the problem.
Have you tried running a train along the route, notice the position if it crashes, I had a problem with a route of mine but relaying the points
cured it. Hope this helps

Don
Author Cannock Chase, Black Country 1,
Burton, Derby & District route, co-author Scottish Central plus route. Now working on Stoke - Nottingham route an upgrade to Burton Derby route
Top
User avatar
Bigant
Very Active Forum Member
Posts: 1220
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Midlands, CC5 and Burton Derby Author

Post by Bigant »

I wonder if you have any vector errors, try deleting and replacing any trackwork (points) near where you're having the problem.
Have you tried running a train along the route, notice the position if it crashes, I had a problem with a route of mine but relaying the points
cured it. Hope this helps

Don
Author Cannock Chase, Black Country 1,
Burton, Derby & District route, co-author Scottish Central plus route. Now working on Stoke - Nottingham route an upgrade to Burton Derby route
Top
User avatar
pepsipowell
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 896
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:07 am
Location: skiing! (probably)

still no cure

Post by pepsipowell »

The game only crashes if you start in Southampton, you can run a train from anywhere into Southampton and it runs ok (I tried the entire length of the route going southbound from Waterloo and everything worked fine). I'll try replacing all the points between Southampton Central and Eastleigh (sigh :wink: ).

Also, can anyone think of any signal problems that may happen, as I'm fairly sure it is to do with the signals. My last working backup was after I placed signals in Waterloo platforms 19-24, and when I placed signals in platforms 1-18 (and did nothing else) and tried again the problems started :-? .

Jonathan 8)
Top
User avatar
pepsipowell
Well Established Forum Member
Posts: 896
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2003 8:07 am
Location: skiing! (probably)

I have the problem...

Post by pepsipowell »

I tried rebuilding the track database again, after deleting the .tdb, but there was still exactly the same result.

However, I think I have now found the problem. I tried adding one signal at a time (at Waterloo), then testing. Eventually, I got to the point where by adding one signal it stopped working (with all the same symptoms as before), but by removing it it started working again fine. This seems to point to the unpleasant possibility that MSTS does indeed have a built in limit to the number of signals. But by looking at the .tit file, I discovered I had exactly 441 signals placed so far, which is less than some other routes (GNER East Coast has over 800 when I looked). Can anyone shed any light on this problem?
Top
Locked

Return to “[MSTS1] Route Building”