TS2021 Number of scenarios limit dramatically increased

[JustRight]

Hi All, and Merry Christmas,

I have not posted for quite a while, just been lurking in the background.

Anyway, like many of you over time I have had to split up my 'Content' directory into 4 separate directories as TS would crash during the 'Saving Scenario Database' step. I'm sure many of you will have encountered that. So the only way to fix the issue was to place routes in different directories thereby reducing the number of scenarios the program had to process during startup. My install of TS has been like this now for years!

So, over Christmas I decided to purchase the Just Trains Midland Mainline route and it's extensions. I knew that my installation was very close to the 'limit' as I had had to move a route out of the 'Content' directory only a few months ago. But in my rush to try out the new purchase I started TS, and it loaded correctly, no SDBCache errors. Very strange I thought. So I have gradually started adding back my routes that were in separate Content directories.

To my amazement the program loads and runs without any complaints about the SDBCache. I have now been able to add back all of my European and U.S. routes, along with a number of 3rd party routes as well. I currently have 167 Routes in the primary 'Content' directory which contain 8,149 scenarios. This is WAY beyond the previous limits. (NOTE: This is when using the 64bit version of course.)

I don't know when the limits were changed, I can't recall reading about it in the release/patch notes. But in any event it is a fantastic improvement. I'm still testing, but wondered if anyone here had come across this change. I searched the forums in a variety of ways and could not find any references to this recent change in TS.

So, if you have a plethora of 'Content' directories, you might be able to consolidate many of them into the single primary 'Content' directory.

Cheers, and Good Luck.

[gptech]

I don't know when the limits were changed,

A limit has never been *officially" recognised by DTG, and could be argued is only something *invented* by users to mask the true root of the issue by users to save them the hassle of investigating thoroughly.
Whilst there's no doubt that the problem exists for some/several/many your findings can be considered as incidental--what else have you changed?...any scenarios/routes/assets (including reskins) have been removed?...far too early to be claiming/suggesting that a major change has been implemented to the game's core programming.

[JustRight]

Hi there mate,

My apologies, perhaps the title should read "TS2021 The number of scenarios you can have seems to have been increased in my environment"

Nothing else at all has changed in my installation, other than the TS2021 update. No rolling stock, no cleanups, nothing at all. Other than purchasing additional new routes from Just Trains, which increased the number of scenarios and highlighted that something was different. Beyond that, all I have done is to return a very large number of my archived routes back into the primary Content folder.

Doubt all you like, I'm happy having been able to get virtually all my routes back into a single folder tree.

Cheers.

[chrisreb]

Interesting as I encountered that issue and have kept separate Content Folders to avoid that issue. Also speed up loading the game as an added bonus

[749006]

Doubt all you like, I'm happy having been able to get virtually all my routes back into a single folder tree.

On viewing a number of posts on the subject I tried splitting my US, EU and UK routes to see if it worked better - which it did

Problems occurred with some Freeware routes that required Assets from other countries routes.
A good example is Zuid-West Nederland 2.01 which requires Munich - Augsburg , London - Brighton and Sherman hill

With all routes and Scenarios in the Content/Routes folder my 137 routes are working OK
Not sure how many scenarios exist though?

Peter

[holzroller]

Personally I have never had problems with freeware routes when I split my content folder, it was never necessary to split my assets folder. Although it was necessary to split the Kuju folder for a while, but no longer. I have 10's of thousands of scenarios and around 580 routes, posted the exact number in another thread on here some time ago and I am still adding now. 266 routes in my biggest content folder.

[ashgray]

I read this thread with huge interest as I had to split off a lot of my routes and scenarios to avoid out of memory-type problems. Putting aside the views of those who prefer every possible theory, cause and methodology over empirical evidence, I've tried it, and having now put back half of what I'd trimmed off my installation, I'm finding that everything is still working. I'm now moving the remaining routes back to my main installation and will post again once done and tested, but it looks promising so far.

Ash

[holzroller]

So far I have managed to combine my German and Austrian folders, will see how I get on with the rest. Personally I always prefer empirical evidence, I have blocked one or two who don't. Easier on the blood pressure particularly given how condescending some of the posts can be, although you can miss the odd useful post.

[ashgray]

So far I have managed to combine my German and Austrian folders, will see how I get on with the rest. Personally I always prefer empirical evidence, I have blocked one or two who don't. Easier on the blood pressure particularly given how condescending some of the posts can be, although you can miss the odd useful post.

+1

Ash

[JustRight]

Hi there everyone,

I'm really pleased that some of you are trying this discovery out, and having some success. I'm still reserving final judgement until I have run and completed a bunch of scenarios. But so far, it looks very promising

For those wanting to count their scenarios, open the SDBCache.bin file from the 'Content' directory in RW_Tools or TS_Tools. Once the XML is displayed you can do a 'Save As' and save the file as plain text XML. Then load the plain text XML into the Notepad++ editor, and perform a 'Find' (CTRL-F) specifying the following "<sSDScenario d:id" as the search text (this is the opening xml statement of each scenario), then press the 'Count' button and Notepad++ will give the number of scenarios in the database. Be sure to delete the plain text XML file afterwards.

All the Best,
Trevor

[gptech]

For those wanting to count their scenarios.....

...or use Windows Explorer to search your ..\Content\Routes\ folder for ScenarioProperties.xm
The number of incidences of that file equals the number of scenarios---with the omission of any in .ap archives, but that is going to be a relatively insignificant number.

Personally I always prefer empirical evidence...

The empirical evidence posted in this forum has only shown that splitting the Routes folder alleviates the issue, so obviously it's down to something related to the contents of that type of folder. Saying it's down to the number of Tracks.bin files fits that empirically grounded hypothesis.
The issue, nor the *fix*, is not what's doubted, but the claim(s) that
a) it's the number of routes
and/or
b) it's the number of scenarios
To find the root cause has always needed further investigation.

[GrateEastern]

DTG undertook a number of stability fixes.

I'm not party to the full list of fixes, but I suspect they directly or indirectly improve stability for routes with a high number of scenarios.

[holzroller]

Would seem to be the case as I am now down to one content folder instead of 4.

[ashgray]

Likewise - all of my TS assets, routes and scenarios are now back in my main installation fore the first time in years.

Ash

[peterfhayes]

I try to be objective rather than condescending and I respect how other simmers run TS using what ever methodology that makes it work for them.

But what is described here wrt maximum routes/scenarios causing TS20XX to malfunction does not fit with a nerdy geek on how computers wrt TS20XX work.

The steps that TS takes to open.

1. The first item is to load, check and update the scenario database. If there is an error here, it usually means that you have a "corrupt" (workshop) scenario. It could also mean you have too many scenarios but that would have to be an enormous number something in the order >65536. The .ap scenarios would not be involved unless you had modified a default scenario and recompiled it back into the .ap file structure.

2. Without error you have reached the menu screen and usually you would choose "DRIVE" to load into the main menu. If a crash occurs here it could be due to some corruption in the loading process (due to any number of reasons). At this point TS has not loaded any route or scenario just the basic settings including graphics and monitor resolution, keyboard/Xbox, audio, etc.

3. We choose a menu – let us say "STANDARD" (usually the most numerous) choose the ROUTE and SCENARIO for that route and TS NOW and only NOW starts to load the Route, Scenario and the Assets needed for that scenario. TS only LOADS one route/one scenario (multiple assets) at any one time.

An OOM when you press start means there is an issue with the Route or Assets and how they interact with the scenario (the scenario itself has already been checked). Again, here the number of causes could be varied and wide. Check that the route (only) loads via the "Build" menu – if it does it is probably not the route. Then that may leave Assets and difficult to pinpoint.

An OOM just as the Scenario opens – is again possibly due to a problem with an Asset, or the route/scenario coding.

An OOM during the running of the scenario at any point in time is possibly a coding issue in the scenario itself making an invalid call to the Physical RAM. A non-DTG route may also not be coded optimally.

Using the other menus, Career, Free Roam, and Quick Drive would follow a similar pattern of explanation, although there could be some TS coding issues wrt QD/FR.

None of the above indicates that a maximum number of Routes/scenarios will cause an OOM. It is more likely to be an issue between the Route – Asset and Scenario, possibly involving the base code.

Now why have you had problems in the past, but things seem better now? Good Question. It is probably idiosyncratic to your PC setup. Windows updates all the time and changes many parameters (including restricted addresses in the Physical RAM) and that may now allow you to load as many items as you need.

To get an OOM in any software can mean as little as a 4K page in the Physical RAM is not exactly aligned with the same page in the Virtual Address space for TS – OOM. It is called an Invalid Page Fault. Note there are 4,194,304 x 4K pages in 16GB Physical RAM – difficult to find the one out of kilter!

But I reiterate, you should run TS in whatever way is best for you – I have never had to split of routes to get TS to run, but that does not mean that some of you may experience problems with all routes, etc installed.
pKa