Can't get the JT Manor to move

[rikwesson]

I know this is slightly off topic, but I have just had a run with the JT Manor down the Great Western mainline from Paddington to Slough on one of the scenarios that came with the Manor. The fastest speed I could achieve was 57.8 mph, and I got into Slough 5 mins late (got a X). This was due to the performance being set to 75%. Can't find any reference to a known top speed, does this sound about right?
Whilst in the editor the info box saying "regulator setting steam chest enabled" was stuck in the way and would not clear. Is there any way to remove this?

Richard

[alanch]

I know this is slightly off topic, but I have just had a run with the JT Manor down the Great Western mainline from Paddington to Slough on one of the scenarios that came with the Manor. The fastest speed I could achieve was 57.8 mph, and I got into Slough 5 mins late (got a X). This was due to the performance being set to 75%. Can't find any reference to a known top speed, does this sound about right?
Whilst in the editor the info box saying "regulator setting steam chest enabled" was stuck in the way and would not clear. Is there any way to remove this?

Richard

Quick question - do you know how to use the reverser and regulator when driving a steam engine? Get back to us if you don't, and one of us will explain.

By performance being set at 75% do you mean the reverser? If so, that might explain your performance problem.

[brysonman46]

I know this is slightly off topic, but I have just had a run with the JT Manor down the Great Western mainline from Paddington to Slough on one of the scenarios that came with the Manor. The fastest speed I could achieve was 57.8 mph, and I got into Slough 5 mins late (got a X). This was due to the performance being set to 75%. Can't find any reference to a known top speed, does this sound about right?
Whilst in the editor the info box saying "regulator setting steam chest enabled" was stuck in the way and would not clear. Is there any way to remove this?

Richard

By performance being set at 75% do you mean the reverser? If so, that might explain your performance problem.

I suspect that Richard looked at the timetable in the editor, and saw that the %ge set for the run from Paddington to Slough was set at 75. This means 75% of line speed (which is around 100mph). So the timings are based on keeping an average speed of 75mph between the 2 points. If you reckon on an average speed of 55mph, then set the %ge to 55 - you will immediately see a change in the arrival time at Slough (the lower the %ge, the later your arrival)

[alanch]

I suspect that Richard looked at the timetable in the editor, and saw that the %ge set for the run from Paddington to Slough was set at 75. This means 75% of line speed (which is around 100mph). So the timings are based on keeping an average speed of 75mph between the 2 points. If you reckon on an average speed of 55mph, then set the %ge to 55 - you will immediately see a change in the arrival time at Slough (the lower the %ge, the later your arrival)

That could be true - or it could be that the reverser is set to 75%. I was just checking if Richard knows how to use the reverser and regulator to get the best out of a steam locomotive.

[Kernow2]

I'm not an experienced steam loco driver so I use auto-fireman to do his job whilst I concentrate on the driving bit ! I too have the JT Manor and it doesn't want to do anything much with auto-fireman. I've done my Steam Chest homework and regulator settings homework and understand what the figures mean but I'm fighting a losing battle all the time. The small ejector works and I understand this process and I can get it to stop ok but when it's running, no matter what I try it runs out of puff ! I don't think there are any other advanced features enabled with auto-fireman selected. I've spent more time than I was happy to, wrestling with the damned thing, but it will have to remain a mystery or become more novice user friendly. You are not alone Rik !
It's a nice looking model of what in real life was/is a good all-round locomotive.

[alanch]

I'm not an experienced steam loco driver so I use auto-fireman to do his job whilst I concentrate on the driving bit ! I too have the JT Manor and it doesn't want to do anything much with auto-fireman. I've done my Steam Chest homework and regulator settings homework and understand what the figures mean but I'm fighting a losing battle all the time. The small ejector works and I understand this process and I can get it to stop ok but when it's running, no matter what I try it runs out of puff ! I don't think there are any other advanced features enabled with auto-fireman selected. I've spent more time than I was happy to, wrestling with the damned thing, but it will have to remain a mystery or become more novice user friendly. You are not alone Rik !
It's a nice looking model of what in real life was/is a good all-round locomotive.

What reverser (cut off) and throttle (regulator) settings are you using when climbing hills, and is the problem that you can't generate enough steam to maintain boiler pressure.The usual technique when climbing is to increase the cut off and juggle the regulator until you reach the point when steam generation and usage are in balance, and don't push the engine too fast - you may end up crawling up the hill, but as long as your engine is generating enough stem it should keep going. If you run out of steam, you'll stop and have to wait until you've generated enough pressure to start again. On the level and on downgrades reduce the cut off to as low as possible (10 or 15% ?) while keeping the regulator fully open - reduce the throttle if you are likely to exceed the track speed, of course.

Opening the correct damper for the direction of travel should improve combustion and steam generation - you shouldn't need the blower on while on the move, except when going into a tunnel. Use the blower when stationary if boiler pressure is low.

For those who don't know, the cut off refers to the proportion of the piston stroke over which live steam is admitted to the cylinders - when you start off this needs to be as high as possible, while gradually increasing the throttle. Then you gradually reduce the cut off and increase the throttle so that the expansive properties of the steam can do their work. One standard technique of steam drivers was (is) the keep the throttle fully open, and control the speed with the cut off, unless you need to slow down for a speed limit or signal or station stop.

[749006]

For those who don't know, the cut off refers to the proportion of the piston stroke over which live steam is admitted to the cylinders - when you start off this needs to be as high as possible, while gradually increasing the throttle. Then you gradually reduce the cut off and increase the throttle so that the expansive properties of the steam can do their work. One standard technique of steam drivers was (is) the keep the throttle fully open, and control the speed with the cut off, unless you need to slow down for a speed limit or signal or station stop.

Useful info for numpty's like me who can not drive a Steam loco

[rikwesson]

Sorry for a late reply. I thought UKTS was down today, just turns out it doesn't like Firefox. Alanch was correct, I was talking about the linespeed % in the editor. Thank you Kernow2, at least it is not just me. Alanch, all good advice, but not sure what you mean by the correct damper. In auto fireman mode you only have 1 button to press. I have tried many different positions with regulator and reverser. Get stuck half way up the gradient every time. If it can't get up a hill as a player train what's the point of it. I am going to do test tomorrow with it as an AI to see if it makes it up and over.
Also, just tried the BMG Black 5 today, and I won't be trying to drive that again. You need to be able to drive the real things to drive that, and I just want to drive a loco / train and enjoy the experience. I don't want to waste my day figuring out the many buttons and procedures I need to do before moving. I sure there are many who love that sort of thing. And yes, I know it's called a simulator for a reason

All the best, Richard

[Kernow2]

What reverser (cut off) and throttle (regulator) settings are you using when climbing hills, and is the problem that you can't generate enough steam to maintain boiler pressure.The usual technique when climbing is to increase the cut off and juggle the regulator until you reach the point when steam generation and usage are in balance, and don't push the engine too fast - you may end up crawling up the hill, but as long as your engine is generating enough stem it should keep going. If you run out of steam, you'll stop and have to wait until you've generated enough pressure to start again. On the level and on downgrades reduce the cut off to as low as possible (10 or 15% ?) while keeping the regulator fully open - reduce the throttle if you are likely to exceed the track speed, of course.

Everything you said I am aware of. I think I start to get concerned when the speed starts to drop and have been concentrating on trying to maintain some speed instead of preserving steam pressure and letting the loco do it's job. My expectations are maybe over optimistic and I'm going to go back and watch the steam chest more carefully and not over react when things start to change.

In real life I was given a Volvo 6 wheel rigid pulling a fixed drawbar trailer. It had a big lazy motor and when out training I always changed down too early instead of letting the engine revs drop until it got to a sweat spot around 1000rpm when it would just keep pulling ! It never ceased to amaze me how hard it would pull and keep pulling.

I share Rik's sentiment where I don't want to spend many hours learning how to drive a steam loco properly - I like to look out of the window and watch the world going by too much. For those that do and can I salute you !

[michaelhendle]

The top speed for a Grange/Manor was between 70-75 MPH, a Castle could reach a 100 mph but due to the track conditions after WW2 which lasted well into the 1950s, they were limited to 90 mph, but often slower, if the track was bad

In a lot of areas of British Railways, the speed only increased to 100 when the diesel locomotives were introduced, around 1960.locomotives like the class 40, Deltic and Westerns

[rikwesson]

Thanks for that Michael, I didn't even get to 60 mph, and that on the level. I'm not knocking the modelling of steam engines, I think they look superb, but the ones I have tried don't seem to match real life performances ( at least not with auto fireman ). It's a shame really, as all I want to do is drive my train from A to B, up and down hills without the frustration of not getting up a hill ( I have enough frustrations in real life!).

Richard

[alanch]

Thanks for that Michael, I didn't even get to 60 mph, and that on the level. I'm not knocking the modelling of steam engines, I think they look superb, but the ones I have tried don't seem to match real life performances ( at least not with auto fireman ). It's a shame really, as all I want to do is drive my train from A to B, up and down hills without the frustration of not getting up a hill ( I have enough frustrations in real life!).

Hi Richard - what cut off and regulator settings with what load for your under 60 mph, and what was your boiler pressure?

[rikwesson]

Hi Alanch, I had a lot of track to play with and all level and I did various settings with cut off and regulator to try and get more speed. The scenario is "The Cider Express" on the Great Western Mainline which comes with the Manor. I did it with both the steam chest enabled and disabled.

Richard

[alanch]

Hi Alanch, I had a lot of track to play with and all level and I did various settings with cut off and regulator to try and get more speed. The scenario is "The Cider Express" on the Great Western Mainline which comes with the Manor. I did it with both the steam chest enabled and disabled.

Richard

I've been experimenting with the JT Manor (both the JT original and a Steam Sounds Supreme version) and 8 JT Mark 1s on Test Trak, and I've come to the conclusion that with the auto fireman it is fatally flawed. No combination of cut off and regulator with the steam chest enabled will produce more steam than is consumed for me, so the boiler pressure goes steadily down until it reaches about 146 psi - then it stays at that figure, even though the F5 HUD shows that production is still less than consumption. With this boiler pressure the balancing speed on the level is around 58 mph.

I've not tried with the steam chest disabled, mainly because I can't find how to turn it off in the manual! Likewise, I've not tried with me firing because that is too much like hard work.

[michaelhendle]

Hi
Re Manors,

I have tried both the JT and the Victory Works version, leaving Paddington I was lucky to get up to Ealing Broadway at 45 MPH, with the JT one The Victory Works version I was doing 50 by Acton and Passssed Ealing at Broadway at 60+ but had to slam the anchors on as I got signal checked at West Ealing,

average settings were 60% regulator and 45% cut off. but I had to juggle the two controls a bit at times
Mike