Interesting development?

[TransportSteve]

This message has been edited by a Moderator

[Moderator Comment: Easilyconfused - Unacceptable language removed]
Why has he put a deadline date of 25th February for any discounted extras, he obviously doesn't get paid monthly!!!! February pay date in this country is Thursday 28th, some folks won't have anything left before this day and the annual fee on his site is £30, so, some folks will have to go without then because he's an idiot and can't do basic financing, a good start to exclude people from day one, isn't it, another typical amateur that doesn't know the first thing about running a supposedly professional business, sheeeeeesh.
And why is he selling Just Trains products on his site when they have their own website, surely, a link to their site would have sufficed, and he talks about giving a proportion of sales revenues to the developers, surely, they should get it all, otherwise, what is the point of letting him sell content on their behalf, if he takes 30-50% commission, something not quite right with this set up.

Cheerz. Steve.

This message has been edited by a Moderator

[gptech]

A bit harsh there Steve, and also possibly in breach of forum rules by being somewhat of a personal attack and quite likely to get this thread locked. Even though we may share your misgivings about the venture it's a bit early to be publicly 'slagging it off' as we haven't yet seen it up and running properly. Be sceptical, nothing wrong with that, be cynical even (I am) but try and keep it on the *right* lines.

[gptech]

repeat for every next reskin, route, scenario you want to install

Just what do you need to extract from a .ap archive in order to make a route or scenario work?...OK, if you haven't the stock a scenario uses you'd have to download and install a reskin which may involve an extraction of a single file from an archive but routes rarely need any assets extracting from archives to make them work. Even when that may be necessary it's not to make the route work as such, but to make a referenced (reskinned) asset available.
The whole issue of it *being so much hassle to extract things* is/has become overblown somewhat.

[TheCatOfWar]

Just what do you need to extract from a .ap archive in order to make a route or scenario work?...OK, if you haven't the stock a scenario uses you'd have to download and install a reskin which may involve an extraction of a single file from an archive but routes rarely need any assets extracting from archives to make them work. Even when that may be necessary it's not to make the route work as such, but to make a referenced (reskinned) asset available.
The whole issue of it *being so much hassle to extract things* is/has become overblown somewhat.

If you're just going to keep nitpicking things I said earlier then it isn't going to be a productive discussion. I've already said it wasn't my intention to try to make things seem harder than they are, however, having used the tool myself, I know I'd certainly rather use it than manually install things even as an experienced user. I can only imagine the appeal would be moreso for a user less confident with these file systems and perhaps computers in general.

[SkylineBoy]

The intention would never be to kill any website or part of the community, just speed up and simplify the process of installing things.

Any other questions or concerns about any of this feel free to ask

Like I said above I was happy to apologise if I got the wrong end of the stick and I often do! Please accept my apologies.

[TheCatOfWar]

Like I said above I was happy to apologise if I got the wrong end of the stick and I often do! Please accept my apologies.

No worries, I should have been clearer earlier and apologise for anything I said that was misleading.

[TheCatOfWar]

Why has he put a deadline date of 25th February for any discounted extras, he obviously doesn't get paid monthly!!!! February pay date in this country is Thursday 28th, some folks won't have anything left before this day and the annual fee on his site is £30, so, some folks will have to go without then because he's an idiot and can't do basic financing, a good start to exclude people from day one, isn't it, another typical amateur that doesn't know the first thing about running a supposedly professional business, sheeeeeesh.
And why is he selling Just Trains products on his site when they have their own website, surely, a link to their site would have sufficed, and he talks about giving a proportion of sales revenues to the developers, surely, they should get it all, otherwise, what is the point of letting him sell content on their behalf, if he takes 30-50% commission, something not quite right with this set up.

Cheerz. Steve.

Hi Steve, the deadline date currently listed on the website is 28 days after whenever the subscriptions go live, so hopefully no matter what time of the month somebody gets paid they won't have to miss out on the opportunity. And I do not know the terms, rates etc, but the idea is indeed that developers hosting content for subscribers on the site will get some proceeds, while some portion also needs to go towards paying for the site itself if it is to continue to operate- as I'm sure you're aware hosting hundreds of gigabytes of files with fast downloads isn't free.

[gptech]

If you're just going to keep nitpicking things I said earlier

So we can discuss, ask questions as long as we stick to *approved* ones? You've implied that installing routes needs the aid of an automated installer, when in most cases it simply doesn't. Routes merely reference assets, whether they're bundled with the, or any other, route or not doesn't matter as long as the end user has them. If they're in a .ap archive it doesn't matter, the game doesn't need those assets extracting in order to use them.
You only need to extract anything from a .ap archive when installing a reskin/rework of any asset, just like if you install a reskin of any asset based on one from a commercial item of DLC you only need to copy the shape file. That's a very simple, very basic operation.
*Magical* software to do it is a great idea, I'm all for an easy life, but when that task (for want of a better word) is described as something that's so, so hard for the average guy to do and he simply needs MagicInstallerv3.8b in order to accomplish it, it isn't expanding the knowledge or abilities of those average guys. Do it for long enough and they'll believe it, and then you end up with a game that stagnates because only the *3lit3* have the ability to produce stuff.
The biggest hurdle those average guys have to leap over is the one that's labelled "not having the confidence to try"---that's just as (if not more so) worthy of dealing with as giving them easy to use tools.

[rosschris10]

Just what do you need to extract from a .ap archive in order to make a route or scenario work?...OK, if you haven't the stock a scenario uses you'd have to download and install a reskin which may involve an extraction of a single file from an archive but routes rarely need any assets extracting from archives to make them work. Even when that may be necessary it's not to make the route work as such, but to make a referenced (reskinned) asset available.
The whole issue of it *being so much hassle to extract things* is/has become overblown somewhat.

If you're just going to keep nitpicking things I said earlier then it isn't going to be a productive discussion. I've already said it wasn't my intention to try to make things seem harder than they are, however, having used the tool myself, I know I'd certainly rather use it than manually install things even as an experienced user. I can only imagine the appeal would be moreso for a user less confident with these file systems and perhaps computers in general.

Well judging by your attitude in all of your 12 or so posts on this forum then coming out all defensive if anyone is being nit picking it is you being so secretive at the start.

You are clearly in this "website" more than you are letting on.

So here is a question for you and i apologise in advance if you class this as nitpicking but why is your "tool" getting locked away in to this "paid subscription" service if all the tool does it unpack freeware to help people then shouldnt that be released open to EVERYONE not just those who are going to pay into this "subscription" service.

[TheCatOfWar]

So we can discuss, ask questions as long as we stick to *approved* ones? You've implied that installing routes needs the aid of an automated installer, when in most cases it simply doesn't. Routes merely reference assets, whether they're bundled with the, or any other, route or not doesn't matter as long as the end user has them. If they're in a .ap archive it doesn't matter, the game doesn't need those assets extracting in order to use them.
You only need to extract anything from a .ap archive when installing a reskin/rework of any asset, just like if you install a reskin of any asset based on one from a commercial item of DLC you only need to copy the shape file. That's a very simple, very basic operation.
*Magical* software to do it is a great idea, I'm all for an easy life, but when that task (for want of a better word) is described as something that's so, so hard for the average guy to do and he simply needs MagicInstallerv3.8b in order to accomplish it, it isn't expanding the knowledge or abilities of those average guys. Do it for long enough and they'll believe it, and then you end up with a game that stagnates because only the *3lit3* have the ability to produce stuff.
The biggest hurdle those average guys have to leap over is the one that's labelled "not having the confidence to try"---that's just as (if not more so) worthy of dealing with as giving them easy to use tools.

Now you're just putting words in my mouth. You're welcome to discuss but when the entire premise of your argument is that I mentioned copying geos and then also said it can also install routes without clarifying that routes don't need geos to be copied, it's just a little bit pedantic mate. At no point did I ever say installing stuff is hard or impossible for a less experienced user, simply that it's tedious in comparison to clicking an 'install' button.

The tool makes installing things much more convenient for any user, and has the added bomus of simplifying that process for those not confident on how to do it. It's easy for enthusiasts like us to forget there are a lot of people out there who simply don't want to delve into their own game files.

I disagree that the existence of the tool is there to 'dumb down' the userbase, the manual way is always there and some level of understanding is obviously required in order to produce your own content, and the tool won't change that. The only difference is now, if you simply want to install stuff and have it work, you don't need to waste your time with that stuff and can get to enjoying the content.

[pablottie]

Well if it works and makes things easier for people without taking traffic from other forums / developers sites, well then I'm happy! I think it sounds a very good tool.

I will quite happily wait until its released and read the information that will be / should be provided and if its going to make things more simple, then happy days!! I don't understand a lot of the negative assumptions that have been made. why do things always have to be so negative or turn into arguments, accusations and slagging people off?

I think developers should have words of encouragement and thanks. And if its a pile of s**t when its released and your not happy with what its claiming to do or don't trust it, then steer clear.

But i do think it should be offered without a subscription, even as a standalone product on the website. I agree that a subscription to obtain it will put a lot of people off who may not have any use for anything else offered on the site. (that's if you do need a subscription to get it.) I wouldn't want to assume until its released...

[rosschris10]

Well if it works and makes things easier for people without taking traffic from other forums / developers sites, well then I'm happy! I think it sounds a very good tool.

I will quite happily wait until its released and read the information that will be / should be provided and if its going to make things more simple, then happy days!! I don't understand a lot of the negative assumptions that have been made. why do things always have to be so negative or turn into arguments, accusations and slagging people off?

I think developers should have words of encouragement and thanks. And if its a pile of s**t when its released and your not happy with what its claiming to do or don't trust it, then steer clear.

But i do think it should be offered without a subscription, even as a standalone product on the website. I agree that a subscription to obtain it will put a lot of people off who may not have any use for anything else offered on the site. (that's if you do need a subscription to get it.) I wouldn't want to assume until its released...

Negative assumptions because they are locking freeware into a subscription service. Freeware should be just that FREE not hidding behind some website that wants to charge you £30 a year to download its free content.

[749006]

I've already said it wasn't my intention to try to make things seem harder than they are, however, having used the tool myself, I know I'd certainly rather use it than manually install things even as an experienced user. I can only imagine the appeal would be more so for a user less confident with these file systems and perhaps computers in general.

So a quick question

Having downloaded the Installer Do we have to use it or can we carry on the way we normally do things?

Peter

[TheCatOfWar]

Well judging by your attitude in all of your 12 or so posts on this forum then coming out all defensive if anyone is being nit picking it is you being so secretive at the start.

The only reason I'm here is because I wanted to clear up some misconceptions people had in the absence of information. Some things I said could have been worded better at multiple points and I completely apologise for that.

You are clearly in this "website" more than you are letting on.

And now you can see exactly why I didn't immediately say I was the developer- because people are just going to assume I'm here speaking for the site, which isn't true. Like I say, I'm just here to defend something I've worked hard on, when people were trying to suggest its purpose is malicious somehow.

So here is a question for you and i apologise in advance if you class this as nitpicking but why is your "tool" getting locked away in to this "paid subscription" service if all the tool does it unpack freeware to help people then shouldnt that be released open to EVERYONE not just those who are going to pay into this "subscription" service.

That's a great question, and the answer is as so;

I heard the site owners were looking for something like this tool to offer as an incentive for their subscribers and I gave it a shot because it's something I care about and seemed like an interesting challenge. They commissioned me to develop the tool and provided support, feedback and information which allowed me to make it as good and robust as I possibly could. The decision for it to be for subscribers only is not mine to make, and I don't see how you can claim I'm locking freeware behind a paywall when all the freeware content is still free and available to all. This is just a neat way of managing that content for those who want it.

Bottom line is, if my intention was simply to make money there would certainly be much quicker and more effective ways of doing that, but instead here I am making a content installer for train sim

[TheCatOfWar]

can we carry on the way we normally do things?

Peter

Absolutely, you can do stuff the old way just fine, it's not here to get in the way of how you manage your own install of train sim. It's just an alternative to make life easier if you want, but you'll never be forced to use it to install things.