New Woodhead Route - is it an April Fool?

[NickG]

I have to say I am really enjoying this route, and the locos and emus. Do we know the source of the 506 and 76, are they from where we cannot name or are they completely new models?
Am looking forward to some scenarios appearing on the workshop.
any one else having a slight problem in getting the class 76s and the 506s up to speed?

[Wilburton]

The Class 76 and 506 are completely new models.

I have to say I am really enjoying this route, and the locos and emus. Do we know the source of the 506 and 76, are they from where we cannot name or are they completely new models?
Am looking forward to some scenarios appearing on the workshop.
any one else having a slight problem in getting the class 76s and the 506s up to speed?

[malkymackay]

The credits in the manual list the 506 model from Masterkey Simulations. The 76 is Ricardo Rivera's work, as it was for the original 76 on the older route.

[749006]

Hi Peter. I haven't purchased the route yet so as you seem to have experience of the route at this time, are there any glaring errors in the route. I watched one of the You Tube vids and noticed the semaphore's outside Piccadilly which didn't look right.

Is it a good representation of the route towards the end?

Regards
Steve

They have done a good job on the Class 76 and the Class 506 but their attempt at making a BR Blue eara route has fallen short of the mark.
Quick Drives have problems
There is a shortage of Signals outside Piccadilly - the gantry which is in the Liverpool to Manchester route is completely missing - which will cause a problem for scenario writers
And there are Semaphore Signals just outside Piccadilly which were removed in 1960
At Godley Jn there is a misplaced signal and another at Dunford East.

So it does not get my recommendation

Peter

[749006]

Am looking forward to some scenarios appearing on the workshop.

There are some problems which could cause scenario writers a headache if it includes Piccadilly

any one else having a slight problem in getting the class 76s and the 506s up to speed?

The trains heading towards Woodhead Tunnel are climbing uphill for most of the time after passing Ardwick - average of 1 in 117
The 506 is quite easy to drive like a southern emu but it won't get above 50ish going uphill.

The Class 76 is slightly complicated
Put the loco in to Forward then select Series - As you accelerate go thru the notches until you reach Full Field.
Whilst in Full Field move the Ser/Par handle to Parallel then move the controller back to Notch 1 - you will see the needles jump - you are now in Parallel.
https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/tra ... troduction

Peter

[NickG]

The Class 76 is slightly complicated
Put the loco in to Forward then select Series - As you accelerate go thru the notches until you reach Full Field.
Whilst in Full Field move the Ser/Par handle to Parallel then move the controller back to Notch 1 - you
will see the needles jump - you are now in Parallel.

A very useful piece of advice thank you

[TransportSteve]

Yes, I think the locos and EMU are excellent, Reppo did the 76, and some of us have already obtained all his American GP20 diesel locomotives and the New Haven E-33 electric, from Steam, and they are brilliant as well, so, that makes a big difference, the wagon clanks and other noises are new and authentic, although, the Class 08's horn is a bit weak and watery, can Edward give it a bit more ooomph next time, please? and can he slow these things down a bit as well, they all take off like jet engines, 30 mph in notch one is difficult when you're trying to do some fly shunting moves.....
For the money, I think it's one of the best releases ever on Steam, I personally think it also complements the original, so, you now have 2 different eras of the route to play on, and they both play fairly smoothly, with very good frame rates, so, well done to the ''Woodhead Renewal Team'', you've done a super job.

Cheerz. Steve.

[Wilburton]

The Class 08 is actually fitted with a whistle, rather than a horn.
But I agree it sounds quieter than I would expect. I thought it would be more like an Underground train whistle.
And I'm glad you like the route. Praise from you is praise indeed!

the Class 08's horn is a bit weak and watery,
can Edward give it a bit more ooomph next time, please?
....well done to the ''Woodhead Renewal Team'', you've done a super job.
Cheerz. Steve.

[gptech]

It will be a problem trying to put AI on the AC part of the route in Piccadilly as there are no Signals.

Have you tried it peter?

Quite often, AI isn't strictly bound by signals with link 0 being merely a pointer of where to stop when a path doesn't exist, so it may not be a s big a problem as you're suggesting. Don't forget we have a veritable army of scenario writers who often overcome the wee quirks in routes.

Can you provide a diagram/more information about the location of the signals so that somebody could retro-fit them?

[749006]

It will be a problem trying to put AI on the AC part of the route in Piccadilly as there are no Signals.

Have you tried it peter?

Quite often, AI isn't strictly bound by signals with link 0 being merely a pointer of where to stop when a path doesn't exist, so it may not be a s big a problem as you're suggesting. Don't forget we have a veritable army of scenario writers who often overcome the wee quirks in routes.

Can you provide a diagram/more information about the location of the signals so that somebody could retro-fit them?

I have a PDF of the track layout as it was installed in 1960 - it did not change very much over the years.
It's too big to upload here

Peter

[rosschris10]

It will be a problem trying to put AI on the AC part of the route in Piccadilly as there are no Signals.

Have you tried it peter?

Quite often, AI isn't strictly bound by signals with link 0 being merely a pointer of where to stop when a path doesn't exist, so it may not be a s big a problem as you're suggesting. Don't forget we have a veritable army of scenario writers who often overcome the wee quirks in routes.

Can you provide a diagram/more information about the location of the signals so that somebody could retro-fit them?

I have a PDF of the track layout as it was installed in 1960 - it did not change very much over the years.
It's too big to upload here

Peter

So this post was really just a case of you having a swipe at DTG. In your opening post you said

“ made a Free Roam at Manchester Piccadilly and the track layout is SO Wrong it's unbelievable.”

Yet your last comment you say “it did not change very much over the years”

So if something has not changed much over the years how can it be SO Wrong it’s unbelievable

[749006]

So this post was really just a case of you having a swipe at DTG. In your opening post you said

“ made a Free Roam at Manchester Piccadilly and the track layout is SO Wrong it's unbelievable.”

Yet your last comment you say “it did not change very much over the years”

So if something has not changed much over the years how can it be SO Wrong it’s unbelievable

You mis-understand
The track layout at Piccadilly is wrong. The Signalling at Piccadilly, (Ardwick, Faifield, Godley Jn & Dunford East) is Wrong.

When the area was resignalled at Piccadilly in 1959/1960, before BR Blue, they introduced a track layout which enabled parallel moves from 'most' platforms - 6&7 were the exceptions.
The way DTG has modelled the layout you cannot do this as it's wrong.

Also the six lines approaching Ardwick should be from the Woodhead side - Up East Up - Down East - Up Fast - Down Fast - Up Slow - Down Slow
DTG have left the layout as it was before the resignalling - Up East Up - Down East - Up Slow - Up Fast - Down Fast - Down Slow .

Gary(gptech) asked - Can you provide a diagram/more information about the location of the signals so that somebody could retro-fit them?
So I mentioned I have a pdf showing the Correct Track Layout and Signals from 1960 - and “it did not change very much over the years” until the early 1990's

Peter

[gptech]

The track layout at Piccadilly is wrong....

Yes Peter, but the question "have you tried to use AI in a scenario you've created" isn't answered by that. This thread shows that there's quite a number of UKTS members who don't know/don't care how the track should be/how it was and are happy enough as long as they can run scenarios on it. You're saying it's going to be problematic to create those scenarios for those people without any real basis from experience or observation. You singled the lack of signalling out as the reason but are now saying it's because the track is wrong....did I miss an upgrade to the route?, because something's definitely changed going by your posts.

[749006]

The track layout at Piccadilly is wrong....

Yes Peter, but the question "have you tried to use AI in a scenario you've created" isn't answered by that. This thread shows that there's quite a number of UKTS members who don't know/don't care how the track should be/how it was and are happy enough as long as they can run scenarios on it. You're saying it's going to be problematic to create those scenarios for those people without any real basis from experience or observation. You singled the lack of signalling out as the reason but are now saying it's because the track is wrong....did I miss an upgrade to the route?, because something's definitely changed going by your posts.

Sorry I was mis-understanding how AI Worked and I thought trains in TS required Signals to keep them apart?

So I just created a scenario starting in Ashburys with a Class 37 & 6 mk1's from the Kuju stable to run to Piccadilly Platform 5 - Harwich Boat Train
Except I cannot get it to work - it says unable to find route to destination - reversing might be required etc

I tried another scenario from Platform 5 to Ashburys and that sort of works - except you have to depart Piccadilly to some points outside the station then reverse back in to P4 before departing for Ashburys.

And a Quick Drive to Piccadilly ends in P2 which means you have to run thru the engine siding and possible shunt after arrival

Peter

[gptech]

I just created a scenario starting in Ashburys with a Class 37 & 6 mk1's from the Kuju stable to run to Piccadilly Platform 5 - Harwich Boat Train Except I cannot get it to work - it says unable to find route to destination - reversing might be required etc

I tried something similar the other night, running from Ardwick into platform 5, admittedly with no other AI involved, and it pathed into platform 4 and reversed out to gain entry to 5.
There are lots of ploys available to scenario writers to get just the pathing they desire, as long as the pointwork allows it of course--way points, scenario specific markers/stopping points