Backdating Routes and a request for help!

[sem34090]

Hi All,

I'm currently considering backdating the Brighton Mainline route for TS, back to something approximating 1950's/1960's condition, then (If it's any different!) backdating to the 1930's (Post electrification) then the 1920's, 10's, and 00's. I think to go back beyond the 1890's, and certainly the 1870's, would be especially difficult and impractical. The route would (Initially) only cover that modelled in TS, though I may consider extending the Ardingly Branch to Horsted Keynes. To extend to Hove is a bit awkward (realistic station assets are an issue), but Reigate is an option, and at a later date other lines may be added.

The questions I have are as follows:

Firstly, does anyone know a decent source of Southern assets (I know about the Bluebell ones!). I know where to get lattice post signals, and LNWR ones can deputise for LBSCR ones.

Next, and this is a big ask I understand, but would it be possible for someone to create Southern Region (i.e. 'Totem'), Southern Railway (i.e. Target) and Running in boards for the following:
London Victoria,
Battersea Park,
Clapham Junction,
(Can't remember stations from here to East Croydon!!!)
East Croydon,
(I can't remember all of them to Redhill, but I've put some - I think!)
Purley,
Purley Oaks,
South Croydon,
Coulsdon South,
Coulsdon Town (?),
Merstham,
Redhill,
Reigate,
Earlswood,
Salfords,
Horley,
Gatwick (Airport and Racecourse?)
Three Bridges,
Balcombe,
Wivelsfield (?),
Hayward's Heath,
Burgess Hill,
Hassocks,
Preston Park,
Brighton.

I apologise if I've forgotten any. If it's any help, there are Target signs and running in boards included in the Bluebell packs.

I have a few other questions, but I need to look at a few things first,

All the best,

sem34090

[749006]

So what locos and stock would you use on a 1900's BML?

And you will have to rip up a lot of Sidings, Concrete Sleepers and Welded Rail and all those Colour lights.
Plus the track layout is entirely different from pre - electrification.

[sem34090]

Firstly, 1900's stock is severly limited, but for the LBSCR there are the fantastic Victory Works terriers and the old MDI G class single to act as AI. My main idea with a pre-grouping version of the route is as somewhere that is at least the right period for any pre-grouping stock, of which there is a lot forthcoming from Digital Traction especially.

I understand there are a lot of changes to be made, but I have a few ideas for that, one of which is related to the questions below. Signalling isn't too much of a problem, and modifying the track layout shouldn't be either.

So, a few more questions:

After looking around a little bit, I've seen that people have changed the track on a route by changing the 'track rule' in RStools, or by other means. Could somebody possibly explain this to me? I'm not sure how it works, but it would be good to change the track to either IOW, Falmouth or (Preferably) Maerdy track, as obviously the concrete track needs to go.

Also, I would really appreciate any advice for backdating routes, and also any pointers from people who either knew the BML in previous times, the Southern Region in general, or even those who are knowledgeable about such things!

Finally, and I can see this posing a particularly awkward problem: how to represent Victoria as it was! Most stations shouldn't prove a problem, though some modern features might need to be 'disguised' with strategic foliage or clutter...

All the best,

sem34090

[gptech]

I've seen that people have changed the track on a route by changing the 'track rule' in RStools, or by other means. Could somebody possibly explain this to me?

The details of which track is used for which sections of the route are stored in the routes Tracks.bin file.
Brighton Mainline has variants of the same track---dirty, tunnel etc so you need to be absolutely sure you can swap in an appropriate track.
If you're looking at modifying the track layout then you'd also be better off giving the rework it's own track rule, defining the appropriate track types to be used.

Rather than dive in and make a mess of Brighton, or rather a clone of it---never work on the original!--just lay some Brighton track in a new route; say half a mile or so of double track with a cross over junction and a siding or two.

Then decide which track you want to use---no options, you pick what you want and post back.

[sem34090]

Hi GPtech,

Are you suggesting cloning the BML, then swapping the track in the cloned version, after deciding the track by comparison to the BML track? I'll try that...

All the best,

sem34090

[Auscgu]

Sem
Don't forget RW Tools can lift the existing track and also replace the current track rule
I would start a clone fresh build and merge the track bin and compare dem to the dem available on UKTS
Fresh build should give you a clean start


The key to clone is the same route origin which I am sure your aware of
Search for this thread on route merge

Merging routes.. copying tiles

Ugly junctions

Re: Vanishing scenery items (still there, low LOD)

https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=TU5rXN-jm_4

youtube great series

Code: Select all

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To view the video, click on the PLAY button.
If you click anywhere else on this video, you will be taken to a YouTube page, where you may find yourself subjected to content that you feel is offensive.
If you feel THIS video is inappropriate, please report it to a moderator immediately for prompt action. 
 youtube
This video is hosted by YouTube, a site which is outside of the editorial control of UKTrainSim and as such Parental Control is strongly advised.
To view the video, click on the PLAY button.
If you click anywhere else on this video, you will be taken to a YouTube page, where you may find yourself subjected to content that you feel is offensive.
If you feel THIS video is inappropriate, please report it to a moderator immediately for prompt action. 


If the tiles and dem match then an easy transition for extension to the existing route

If not then rename the scenery and study the terrain and track and use the follow track tool to reform the scenery

You will need to a study for each period and decide how to approach



You may find that late SR & BR may be similar so you can run the scenery on period folders

Change the look of the route by changing scenery

This has been done already recently



Sounds like a great project and you will learn heaps

There is a totem down load from UKTS in kit form

Will help with totems

UKTS_31512_totem

You tube has some video to show you how as well

Some ideas to get you started



Cheer Ausc

[sem34090]

Hi Auscgu, thanks for joining and offering assistance (Also thanks for responding to the E&ELR Thread )

I've just cloned the route, as this makes obvious sense, and have set up a test route. Upon comparing the different available track, I've come upon two options:

1.) Use the wooden track already included with thee Brighton Mainline.

2.) Use the track from Exeter - Kingswear, which seems more steam-era in appearance and has variants which can directly replace the BML ones.

I'd rather use the Exeter - Kingswear track, but what would this do to things such as the third rail, especially where the original track was super-elevated (The line was electrified in the 1930's) and the replacment will not be? Also, can I swap the track itself without swapping the track rule which is what I think dictates electrification etc? Can I simply swap the track (.bin?) files from the BML to the ones from E-K?

As for extensions, should be OK on that front, if the original route used DEM data (it's quite old so might not have), if not then I might need to improvise!

All the best,

sem34090

[brysonman46]

After looking around a little bit, I've seen that people have changed the track on a route by changing the 'track rule' in RStools, or by other means. Could somebody possibly explain this to me? I'm not sure how it works, but it would be good to change the track to either IOW, Falmouth or (Preferably) Maerdy track, as obviously the concrete track needs to go.

All the best,

sem34090

All is explained in one of Mike Simpson's tutorials http://www.rstools.info/tutorials/Replacing_Track2.pdf
You may need to remove electrification (3rd rail), and there is another tutorial on that.

Nick

[sem34090]

I've read through that, but have hit a problem: RWtools seems to think my cloned version of the route is missing all assets and content, which it isn't, because it works!

How do I get around this? The tutorial is OK, but can be awkward to follow...

Currently digging out the PM's GPtech sent me some time back about how to reskin stuff...

All the best,

sem34090

[gptech]

Mike's tutorial, as good as it may be, was written a long time ago and isn't really applicable today.
The principle's the same, but it's so much simpler.

OK.. don't try changing a whole route at once--you'll only confuse yourself. Forget any merging of routes/files to start with, just get the hang of things first on something simple---once you've done a simple file and can easily see what you'll be changing then apply what you've learned to a bigger job.

I'd rather use the Exeter - Kingswear track, but what would this do to things such as the third rail, especially where the original track was super-elevated (The line was electrified in the 1930's) and the replacment will not be?

You want Exeter track?...you got it....there's no problem at all there. Just find the full path and file name for the track you want to change to. The third rail has nothing to do with the track in the game, it's a scenic loft so can be deleted easily.

Also, can I swap the track itself without swapping the track rule which is what I think dictates electrification etc?

Yes, but it's better to give your route, particularly a large project it's own rule---if that's the advice given by Keith M Ross then it's bloody good advice and I ain't arguing with one of the best route builders we've had (see his tutorial at http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... c68148bebb)

Can I simply swap the track (.bin?) files from the BML to the ones from E-K?

Do you mean the track type files (assets) or the track tiles files(route)?

For the former, there's no need to move any files---all you're going to do is tell the game to use another file for track so it doesn't matter where it is. The latter is a big no, those files determine the layout and also they must match the information in Tracks.bin.

One step at a time though, walk before running etc so take 5 minutes to throw a test piece together.

[brysonman46]

I've read through that, but have hit a problem: RWtools seems to think my cloned version of the route is missing all assets and content, which it isn't, because it works!

How do I get around this? The tutorial is OK, but can be awkward to follow...

Currently digging out the PM's GPtech sent me some time back about how to reskin stuff...

All the best,

sem34090

If the assets for the route are in .ap files, then RWTools will not find them. If it doesn't find the default Kuju/RailSimulator or Kuju?Railsimulatorcore, then something is indeed wrong!

Nick

[sem34090]

Once again, thanks for the advice!

I'll have a play and report back later...

All the best,

sem34090

[Auscgu]

Sem

I have been busy playing with signals
Having trouble getting them to play together with a numbering code
Looks like some solid advice you have been given can't wait to see the pics of your progress

Cheers Ausc

[sem34090]

No Progress yet, more's the pity. I'll try and get the track switched over, if not then I'll just have to go in and do it by hand! If that's the case I'm not looking forward to Clapham. After the track has been switched, I'll try and get Hassocks Done (Brighton's more awkward, so is Preston Park, so I'll attempt to work up towards Victoria from Hassocks. Then I'll post pictures!

And the revert back to GMT from BST has thrown me...

All the best,

sem34090

[gptech]

I'll try and get the track switched over

Whether you create a test route to play with or dive straight into a clone of the full route, the format of the sections and the procedure for the swap is exactly the same---a test piece just makes it easier to see the total effect, and highlight any issues, at a glance.

The type of track used is defined by these sections in the routes Tracks.bin file

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											<BlueprintID>
												<iBlueprintLibrary-cAbsoluteBlueprintID>
													<BlueprintSetID>
														<iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID>
															<Provider d:type="cDeltaString">RSC</Provider>
															<Product d:type="cDeltaString">BrightonMainLine</Product>
														</iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID>
													</BlueprintSetID>
													<BlueprintID d:type="cDeltaString">RailNetwork\Track\track01_conc.xml</BlueprintID>
												</iBlueprintLibrary-cAbsoluteBlueprintID>
											</BlueprintID>

If you want to use the track from Exeter-Kingswear, that's located at

..\DTG\ExeterKingswear\RailNetwork\Track\ and I imagine you'd want the wooden sleepers version, track01_wood.bin

Those sections of the Tracks.bin file should therefore read

Code: Select all

											<BlueprintID>
												<iBlueprintLibrary-cAbsoluteBlueprintID>
													<BlueprintSetID>
														<iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID>
															<Provider d:type="cDeltaString">DTG</Provider>
															<Product d:type="cDeltaString">ExeterKingswear</Product>
														</iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID>
													</BlueprintSetID>
													<BlueprintID d:type="cDeltaString">RailNetwork\Track\track01_wood.xml</BlueprintID>
												</iBlueprintLibrary-cAbsoluteBlueprintID>
											</BlueprintID>

NB: RW Tools uses the .xml extension, even though the files are of the .bin type so ensure it still reads as .xml when you edit!!

Making the change is nice and easy, use the 'Search and Replace' routine.

Click on Search and replace in the menu bar, and then on Find in the options displayed.

Paste that original section in the top pane, the amended section in the bottom one.



Click the 'Replace All' button and the program will go through the route changing all those references to the Exeter-Kingswear track--don't be impatient, it'll have a lot of work to do. When it has completed the task save the file and fire up the route in TS. You'll find that this



will have become



Not exactly what you're looking for admittedly, but simply by enabling DTG\ExeterKingswear in the Provider\Product listing and reloading the route results in



Of course if you enable that P/P combination in the route before doing the swap you'd go straight to visible track---one of the reasons I've been banging on about using a test route to play with is to be able to easily show what can go *wrong*. As you can see from the images the point motors are still in situ, if they're wrong they can be changed to the EK ones by doing the same procedure in the Tracks.bin file but centred on these sections...

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													<BlueprintID>
														<iBlueprintLibrary-cAbsoluteBlueprintID>
															<BlueprintSetID>
																<iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID>
																	<Provider d:type="cDeltaString">RSC</Provider>
																	<Product d:type="cDeltaString">BrightonMainLine</Product>
																</iBlueprintLibrary-cBlueprintSetID>
															</BlueprintSetID>
															<BlueprintID d:type="cDeltaString">RailNetwork\Junctions\Automatic_Junction_Motor.xml</BlueprintID>
														</iBlueprintLibrary-cAbsoluteBlueprintID>
													</BlueprintID>

Use Search and Replace to switch those chunks over to one with the path and file name changed to suit the EK motor (or any other motor you may want to use) just as you did for changing the track type.