Electrics running on non electric lines

[david1]

Is there a way of getting electric train to run on non electric lines, I have a reskin of a class 377 into LM class 172, I am trying to get them to run on the Chiltern mainline but as there are electric they will not path.

[holzroller]

Change the track properties to electric and it will work, TS doesn't care if there is no catenary or third rail.

[Springer6]

Change the track properties to electric and it will work, TS doesn't care if there is no catenary or third rail.

On some routes this can be very difficult to do via the World Editor. It is often nearly impossible to select the track and get the track properties box to open, depending upon how complex and how varied the original track is.

Sometimes a better bet is to make a "Diesel" version of your electric stock by first cloning and naming it with say a "D" suffix. Then edit the clone's .bin file to change "EngineType" from "Electric" to "Diesel".

This usually works, as with RScott's Croyden tram, made as a Manchester "diesel" version for the originally un-electrified tram sections of the Liverpool to Manchester route.

However, sometimes it doesn't work e.g. I have been unable to get a "diesel" JT S8 LU unit to run on the un-electrified "Central Line" sections of the photon66's Chiltern Mailine route ( very frustrating ). The track concerned in this case is very difficult to select and change.

David 1 wrote: "I have a reskin of a class 377 into LM class 172, I am trying to get them to run on the Chiltern mainline but as there are electric they will not path."

If you look at scenario "1H26 07:05 Kidderminster-London M" by Keith Ross for the photons version of Chiltern, consist "2K01" is a 377 LM running as a class 172. The .bin files seem to have an "electric " Enginetype, so I assume the track has been electrified at the relevant parts ?

[gptech]

Most of the track in Photons Children line is set as electric, and the 377 would seem to be like the S8 in that changing it to diesel doesn't work, or at least wouldn't work for me in a test a week or so ago.

[Springer6]

Most of the track in Photons Children line is set as electric, and the 377 would seem to be like the S8 in that changing it to diesel doesn't work, or at least wouldn't work for me in a test a week or so ago.

OK , I wasn't aware that most of the track was electric ( I presume you mean most of the ordinary non LU track ? ). That probably explains why the 377 runs as a 172 in some of the supplied scenarios with this route.

The problem I had with the S8 was on bits of the "4th rail track" north of South Ruislip. Some of the track is intermittently set as "Electrification None". I have found it very difficult to select and convert some of it to third rail, so S8s or even 483 repaints will not path.

Tests on the Test Track show that standard and "diesel" S8s will not run on even normal electrified track, but will both run when the electrification is changed to "Third Rail".

In the S8 "simulation" file there appears the following lines: <Has3rdRailPowerSupply d:type="cDeltaString">eTrue</Has3rdRailPowerSupply>
<Requires4thRail d:type="cDeltaString">eTrue</Requires4thRail>

I have tried changing both "eTrue" to "eFalse" for the "diesel" version, but this does not solve the issue and causes the sim to freeze if the S8 is selected.

Maybe it because there are 2 simulation files in one overall folder ? The search goes on .

[gptech]

What are the 2 simulation files?

You should be able to change the electrician by editing the route's Tracks.bin file....never tried it though.....

[david1]

Sometimes a better bet is to make a "Diesel" version of your electric stock by first cloning and naming it with say a "D" suffix. Then edit the clone's .bin file to change "EngineType" from "Electric" to "Diesel".

Just changed the 377 reskin to diesel now it works fine, thanks for that.

[Springer6]

Sometimes a better bet is to make a "Diesel" version of your electric stock by first cloning and naming it with say a "D" suffix. Then edit the clone's .bin file to change "EngineType" from "Electric" to "Diesel".

Just changed the 377 reskin to diesel now it works fine, thanks for that.

Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't ! Glad it worked for you this time . It's good to know that we can easily have an "LM 172/2/3" for the JT Chiltern.

Now if I could just sort a "diesel" S8 !!!

[Springer6]

What are the 2 simulation files?

You should be able to change the electrician by editing the route's Tracks.bin file....never tried it though.....

I meant that there is a simulation.bin file for the Default and one for the diesel. The sim doesn't seem to like it when I edit the simulation.bin for the diesel.

Yeah, I thought there might be a way, such as "editing the route's Tracks.bin file.", but like you, I have never tried that and frankly I wouldn't know where to start.

I have used the guidance notes by Mike Simpson ( I think) on removing electrification to successfully make a retro non electrified version of WCMLN, but I have never "added electrification" by this method, let alone "partially added" electrification!

[gptech]

I meant that there is a simulation.bin file for the Default and one for the diesel

As long as the right one is called for it doesn't matter how many uniquely named simulation files there are, so that's (theoretically anyway) one less potential cause to worry about.

The sim doesn't seem to like it when I edit the simulation.bin for the diesel.

Well it wouldn't if the edit mis-referenced something...just what did you edit?

Yeah, I thought there might be a way, such as "editing the route's Tracks.bin file.", but like you, I have never tried that and frankly I wouldn't know where to start.

Finding out the track type used would be a good starting point, and then use RW Tools to search for instances of that track....

You should find entries along the lines of...

Code: Select all

											<Property>
												<Network-iTrackNetworkElectrification-cPropertyValue>
													<Electrification d:type="cDeltaString"></Electrification>
												</Network-iTrackNetworkElectrification-cPropertyValue>
											</Property>

Changing that to

Code: Select all

											<Property>
												<Network-iTrackNetworkElectrification-cPropertyValue>
													<Electrification d:type="cDeltaString">OverheadWires</Electrification>
												</Network-iTrackNetworkElectrification-cPropertyValue>
											</Property>

Should/would/might have the desired effect. It'd be awkward to work out just which bits were which, so it might have to be a case of a global change, all or nothing in other words, by using the "Search and Replace" routine and then "Replace All"

Give it a bash on a test route, even if that's only a few lengths of track you've laid yourself in a new route. (I'd do it, but I'm lazy and busy with other stuff and working tomorrow and then busy having fun.....will have a proper look at the back end of next week though)

Just changed the 377 reskin to diesel now it works fine, thanks for that.

Which vehicles did you edit David, and do the powered coaches work when used singly? If you've dropped on the right stuff to edit that only leaves some diesel sounds to sort out....

[david1]

Which vehicles did you edit David, and do the powered coaches work when used singly?

I changed the DMOC `bin` file

<EngineType d:type="cDeltaString">Diesel</EngineType>

which is located just after the bogie 2 reference file

not tried them out driven yet, they work as AI`s , was waiting until I have played around with them again to link to diesel unit sound, not quite sure what they sounds most like 165 or a 170 though

[gptech]

not tried them out driven yet, they work as AI......

Ahhhhhh.....there's a big difference between AI and driven service. Just to clarify, was it the 377 included with Brighten Mainline that you used?--tried the same edit last night and it was dead when trying to drive it.

[Springer6]

not tried them out driven yet, they work as AI......

Ahhhhhh.....there's a big difference between AI and driven service. Just to clarify, was it the 377 included with Brighten Mainline that you used?--tried the same edit last night and it was dead when trying to drive it.

OK Graham, are you suggesting that electric units will work as diesel AI just by changing the "enginetype" but will not necessarily work as driven units ?

If so , I've been going crazy trying to get the things to drive when all I really want to do is to use them as AI. i.e get the S8 (or rather the 483 now I've realised that the Central line uses deep tunnel stock) to run as AI on the sections of Central Line track in photons Chiltern route that I can't seem to fully electrify.

Come to think of it all the electric units that I've made or experienced as diesel conversions (e.g. Croyden Tram and a 317 acting as a Merseyrail unit ) have only been run as AI.

More tests in order now I think .

[gptech]

are you suggesting that electric units will work as diesel AI just by changing the "enginetype" but will not necessarily work as driven units ?

No, but I'm suggesting that in this case, using that particular item of stock (still to be fully determined, I was guessing at the Brighton 377 but there are other in the game), edited in that particular way, David's observations coupled with my findings make that a possibility and something worthy of further consideration and testing

How's that for non-committal?

[Springer6]

are you suggesting that electric units will work as diesel AI just by changing the "enginetype" but will not necessarily work as driven units ?

No, but I'm suggesting that in this case, using that particular item of stock (still to be fully determined, I was guessing at the Brighton 377 but there are other in the game), edited in that particular way, David's observations coupled with my findings make that a possibility and something worthy of further consideration and testing

How's that for non-committal?

No need to be non committal !!!

I've just tested it out with both the S8 and a TFL 483 . Both cloned with a "Diesel AI " suffix and enginetype changed to diesel. Both function perfectly on non electrified track as AI trains ( where the electric trains would not ), but of course these diesel units will not act as driven units ( that's going to be a much more difficult ask )

However I've solved my problem for now. Thanks for putting me on the right lines ( non electrified of course ) .