Cannot manage to drive steam engine through gradient

[pavsko]

I tried to do this the same way. Opened QD, uncoupled loco, saved game, quited QD, reload QD and couple loco again with couches. But after coupling, the game ends with message "you passed a signal at danger..." So I cannot try driving

[AndyUK]

Odd, that didn't happen when I tried it. Did you move far enough forward before saving for the signal at the platform end to go back to danger? Or is there a signal behind the train you've slightly over run? There's an option to turn off "SPAD equals game over" in the settings somewhere, worth a try if it keeps happening.

Andy L

[pavsko]

Thanks Andy, switching off the option helped.
And YES, after coupling again I can easily pull the coaches uphill WITHOUT sander and manage to gain sustained speed 19 mph and NO WHEEL SLIP at all.
See screenshot (taken at the summit of uphill route) for my reverser and regulator settings

Well, I did not manage more than 20 mph with so may be I need to learn more to be able to gain yours 35 mph but I am satisfied now with the result. On the other hand, I had auto fireman OFF and realistic mod ON so my be the sim handled my engine little differently...

So, does it all mean that default wheel slip is less prone to slip and it is not very realistic and scripted wheel slip for particular loco (Casle in our case) is more realistic and that is why the castle is so very prone to wheel slip?

[AndyUK]

I think it shows that the Castle is using the flawed default wheel slip code unmodified by scripting. By the way what are you using to show the data in your screenshot? I tend to use the F5 display as it can show steam production and steam useage rates, useful to get them in balance.

Andy L

[pavsko]

OK, if I understand your explanation correctly: default wheel slip model = extensive slipping which is not realistic
So what is changed after uncoupling and coupling loco like Castle with default slip model?
Do you think TS has a bug and calculate the weight of couches differently then?

BTW would you recommend me please some steam loko with advanced controls where things like wheel slip are corrected (scripted)?
(I know there is Pro range of engines from DTG: http://train-simulator.com/the-ts-pro-range-roster/ but may be some add-ons, e.g. from Just Trains, are better modeled?)

As for overlay info on my screenshot, I use trainsim-helper from havner: http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=139304
It uses different colors for boiler PSI (green/red) so I can recognize production and consumption of steam (F4 panel works in the same way for boiler PSI) so I do not need F5 rates.

[AndyUK]

OK, if I understand your explanation correctly: default wheel slip model = extensive slipping which is not realistic
So what is changed after uncoupling and coupling loco like Castle with default slip model?
Do you think TS has a bug and calculate the weight of couches differently then?

The default wheel slip model appears to factor in the weight of the train attached to the player loco when the scenario loads. It shouldn't - the weight of the train essentially has no influence over whether or not the driving wheels will slip. Slip will occur when the force exerted by the driving wheels exceeds the frictional force between the wheel and rail which is only dependent on the weight of the loco borne by the driving wheels and the coefficient of friction between wheel and rail. Note that that's a simplified explanation ignoring creep and probably a few other factors that might have a slight influence but essentially the core model is incorrect.

What's changed after uncoupling, saving, resuming and recoupling is that on resuming the software correctly uses only the weight of the loco in its wheel slip calculations - not that of the whole train. You can get the same result by setting up a new scenario with the loco and coaches uncoupled then coupling up after loading it.

BTW would you recommend me please some steam loko with advanced controls where things like wheel slip are corrected (scripted)?

I don't often drive steam locos so I've not really looked into that but I think that some, possibly all, locos from Meshtools and Victory Works have a much more realistic wheel slip model. There may well be others and a search on the forum might help you build a list or other members may jump in with some ideas for you.

As for overlay info on my screenshot, I use trainsim-helper from havner: http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=139304
It uses different colors for boiler PSI (green/red) so I can recognize production and consumption of steam (F4 panel works in the same way for boiler PSI) so I do not need F5 rates.

Thanks, I'll take a look at that.

Andy L

[karma99]

That's a good explanation Andy.

BTW would you recommend me please some steam loko with advanced controls where things like wheel slip are corrected (scripted)?

I don't often drive steam locos so I've not really looked into that but I think that some, possibly all, locos from Meshtools and Victory Works have a much more realistic wheel slip model. There may well be others and a search on the forum might help you build a list or other members may jump in with some ideas for you.

I can't speak for anyone else but all of our locos since the Bulleid Q1 (so everything except the 56xx and Steam Railmotor - which hardly has the power to slip!) have realistically simulated wheel slip. We developed it specifically for the Q1 as they were notoriously prone to slipping due to their light weight and 0-6-0 configuration versus their huge power output and we wanted them to perform accurately, and have fitted it to every loco since.

My own guess on the broken default wheel slip is that it stores the weight of the consist when the scenario starts and never updates it - so if you start with a light engine then it's correct, or pretty close as I think it probably includes any tender weight as well which it shouldn't. If you start coupled then it counts the entire weight of the train which makes slipping far too frequent.

[pavsko]

Thank very much Andy for detailed explanation, I can understand the problem clearly now

To karma99: I have just visited your Victory Works website as well as steamsoundssupreme and I have to say your add-ons looks very impressive! It seems to be my choice no.1 for the high-quality steam engine add-on.

[ttjph]

I thought the physics on the Riviera locos had been done by Victory Works?

The wheelslip animation is done very nicely, but I hadn't checked it for the broken core phyics issue...

[karma99]

I thought the physics on the Riviera locos had been done by Victory Works?

We did some scripting for them: adding various emitters, steam chest, etc. We also created the water trough pick up code and set up the standard simulation blueprints and we wrote the Driver Assist code as well.
There wasn't time to give them the full VW treatment which involves changing the entire way that the locos interact with the track. It also means changing the way sounds work so they can all be synchronised correctly with the wheel and piston motion.

[Trev123]

I have the SSS pack for the Castle, have they changed any of the physics or just the sounds ?

[ttjph]

I thought the physics on the Riviera locos had been done by Victory Works?

We did some scripting for them: adding various emitters, steam chest, etc. We also created the water trough pick up code and set up the standard simulation blueprints and we wrote the Driver Assist code as well.
There wasn't time to give them the full VW treatment which involves changing the entire way that the locos interact with the track. It also means changing the way sounds work so they can all be synchronised correctly with the wheel and piston motion.

Ah, I see.

Well, they're flippin' impressive for only having some of your 'touch' applied then! I really like the steam chest, the brakes that vary with train length, and the smoke colours that change as you fire.