New Computer - new opportunity!

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K2rover
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New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by K2rover »

Hello all,

So my last computer which I've had for the last six years has finally died a death. So I'm looking to get a new one and see it as a great opportunity to buy a computer which is actually geared to running simulations. As well as Train Simulator, I'm also a big fan of Flight Simulator X.

Having been to a well known computer retailer this evening, they recommended getting a custom build job, as the 'in store' computers aren't great for gaming specifically.

I don't really have any knowledge of what I might need in a custom build which will run train sim like a dream, so was hoping that the community could help.

The chap in the shop did recommend 8GB RAM, and Nvidia GSync Monitor and i5 processor K series. Do you agree?

Any advice would be much appreciated! I'm quite excited about getting truly good frame rates for the first time in this game! :)
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Trev123
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by Trev123 »

What sort of price range are you looking at ?
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K2rover
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by K2rover »

I would say between £500-900 would probably be the price range.
gptech
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by gptech »

Do you play any other games, or are we just considering the best spec for TS?

For TS, an i5 is well suited for the job; an i7 doesn't bring much to the table despite the price hike. Go for an Intel CPU rather than AMD though, you'll pay more but get more. A CPU with the 'K' suffix means the multiplier is unlocked, so it can be overclocked. Great if that's what you want to do, but not something that's essential. The Skylake platform is quite exciting---and this is where we all like spending somebody else's money---as it supports the latest M.2 interface for SSDs, Wi-Fi cards and lots of other cool techie toys.
On the memory front, 8 GB of RAM should really be considered the starting point for a 64bit system, so it wouldn't hurt to double that if possible.
A G-Sync monitor would be a great addition, but that chews up 25-30% of your budget; GPU wise an nVidia 960 hits the sweet spot--anything above that offers little appreciable gain in performance/quality. With the release of the 10 series GPUs though, the prices of 970s and 980s has fallen so if one of those fits in the budget there's no reason to go a little OTT. Whichever GPU you get, go for 4 GB of vRAM to be able to push the anti-aliasing up comfortably. If you do source a G-Sync monitor or decide to get one later then having that vRAM is (I'm led to believe) pretty much a requisite.
Having been to a well known computer retailer this evening, they recommended getting a custom build job
PC World, and they suggested going to PC Specialist?
Does them no harm to recommend PCS, they still get their cut :wink:
One thing to be wary of, and I've only just spotted it whilst looking at the PCS configurator, make sure that whatever you go for has a PSU with the grunt to drive all the sexy bits you may get as hard and as fast as they can go---in other words, the 350W unit which is the default at PCS isn't what you want. Doubling that figure brings you into the right area, and the more the merrier in this case*. Moral of the story- if in doubt over a spec ask in here or better still in a hardware forum to help you cut through the jargon and spiel.

*The case, like the PSU, is an item we all tend to overlook when evaluating how good for the job it is. Far too many *gaming* cases look the part but wall woefully short of the mark because making them look like Darth Vader's head and adding cool lights/windows has taken precedence over making them thermally efficient (gaming:- you're gonna be pushing hardware a fair bit, it'll produce heat, you want that heat out of the case ASAP) and roomy enough for further expansion. Little touches, such as nice trunking for cables which not only keeps things tidy but also aids air flow as the air isn't battling to get round those cables to get to where it's needed. aren't as common as they should be but are definitely worth looking for.

Now for the big question....what's stopping you doing the build yourself?
A self build project isn't hard, and you're then totally free to shop around and get the bits you want at the best prices.
clivejames1st
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by clivejames1st »

Built mine myself. Never done it before and easier than expected. That way I got what I wanted.
johnrossetti
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by johnrossetti »

I have built all four of my own personal pc's now. Once you have selected the motherboard it's quite easy. BUT - DO stick to the manufactures recommended CPU and relevant memory, but at least you do get physically exactly what you want.
Other than that pcspecialist or Novatech do good machines, you need to remember that you don’t need a gaming pc you need a simulator pc, big difference.
https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/ shows this well as there is a section for gaming computers and flight simulator computers. If you try the self build, build one first on their website and then save the spec and try to copy/modify it to your needs. Self Build does not save money.
Good luck J
K2rover
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by K2rover »

Thank you for the great advice. That's some great detail and just what I need.

Yes I think I should be building this myself most probably. However I've never undertaken a task like this before and therefore want to get it right. And I don't really know which components I want, just the types of games I want it to be good for. Therefore, I hoped one of the custom build computer websites could put one together for me based on being good for simulation. Not really worried about other types of games although I am a bit partial to Pro Evolution Soccer.
daveannjon
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by daveannjon »

I can certainly recommend Chillblast's Krypton Fusion https://www.chillblast.com/chillblast-f ... ng-pc.html I upped the spec a bit on mine and am well pleased, great fps, virtually no stutter, everything maxed out and very quick loading of scenarios.

DaveW
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firetrap1
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by firetrap1 »

I Recommend building one yourself.

I have done two previous builds before my current PC and have managed to get a stable overclock to 4.6GHz on this one also.

My top shopping tips are:

- look through some useful tutorials on YouTube by big brand manufacturers such as ASUS for some backround to building a PC

- Spend a little extra on a NVidia Graphics card (the newest line of GTX1080/1070/1060 cards are out now, so the last generations high end cards will also be a bit cheaper) If I remember correctly NVidia cards were shown to perform better with Train Simulator. Also take note of the amount of memory your chosen graphics card will have as this can limit performance at high resolutions, with 4Gb GDDR and above soon to become the standard.

- As Train Simulator program is close to becoming 10 YEARS old (yes almost a decade!) it is not optimised for multi-core processing, so choosing a fast unlocked i5 CPU will work better than having a CPU with many cores running at a slow speed.

- Choose a motherboard that will cost around £100 that has boost-clock features to take advantage of your unlocked CPU. I also have heard talk that Train Simulator is not SLI-compatible, so no need to purchase two graphics cards for this sim.

- Depending on what version of windows you will use take note that in some PC configurations windows OS will need around 2-3GB's of ram to run these days, but fortunately computer memory is cheap at the moment so you can easily walk out a shop with 16Gb RAM for around £50 and it will go a long way for helping to play other PC games as well. Cheaper memory isn't going to be the fastest, but it still gets the job done.

- On the subject of speed, having Train Simulator on an ultra fast SSD does nothing for my loading times. Again because the current program is soo old it is not optimised. Consider a fast HDD with a 7200RPM Spin Speed, 64MB Cache and fast average seek time as a compromise between cost and performance.

- Spend the bulk of you cash on the Graphics card, CPU, power supply and then the rest of the other components afterward. The power supply is really important as it can often last longer in your PC than the rest of your components before you upgrade/update. Some modern graphics cards are real power hogs, so look out for a power supply with a high energy efficiency rating (80+ platinum rating is one of the top ratings and can save you money on your electricity meter in the long term). The PSU's seen in many store bought home computers always include the cheap/generic/unbranded units which will limit your future component upgrade options and most don't include information on energy efficiency.

- The case you put everything in should be the last decision you make. 99% of the time you don't need to look at the case while gaming anyway.

- I don't recommend laptops.


Hope this helps

chris
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clivejames1st
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by clivejames1st »

I done quite a bit of research beforehand regarding components for the new PC. I used YouTube both for help selecting items and installing, It is very, very helpful. Do not be tempted to rush the job and all should go well. Make a list of what you need and look around for the best deal. My parts came from Amazon, eBay, Maplin, and others for all the parts, it saved me quite a few pounds.
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firetrap1
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by firetrap1 »

Forgot to also add to be on the look out for OEM parts on computer websites such as Overclockers as this will further reduce costs on items such as the CPU, HDD, CD-ROM and also things like the windows OS (you don't need a manual and telephone support to install windows these days anyway and you could save £30 quid).
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K2rover
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by K2rover »

Thank you all for your feedback. I've been watching quite a few Youtube videos about putting a computer together, and I think just to be on the safe side I will get it built for me on this occasion even if I have to pay quite a bit extra.

So I've narrowed down some potential options judging by what you've said is best to have. Please let me know your feedback on these.

Option 1
LENOVO IdeaCentre 700 Windows 10 (pre-installed)
Intel® Core™ i5-6400 Processor
Memory: 16 GB
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960
Hard drive: 2 TB

Option 2
HP ENVY Phoenix 860-050na Gaming PC
Windows 10 (pre-installed)
Intel® Core™ i5-6600K Processor
Memory: 16 GB
Graphics: AMD Radeon R9 370
Hard drive: 2 TB & 128 GB SSD

Option 3
FSX 850 PC (from PCSpecialist)
> Intel® Core™ i5-6600K
> ASUS® Z170-P
> 16GB HyperX FURY DDR4 2133MHz
> 2GB AMD RADEON™ R7 370
> 120GB KINGSTON UV400 SSD

Option 4 --- Bit more detailed, but slightly over my price range. Price of this £1,093.
Case COOLERMASTER ELITE 311 BLUE CASE
Processor (CPU) Intel® Core™i5 Quad Core Processor i5-6400 (2.7GHz) 6MB Cache
Motherboard ASUS® Z170-P: ATX, LG1151, USB 3.0, SATA 6GBs
Memory (RAM) 16GB HyperX FURY DDR4 2133MHz (2 x 8GB)
Graphics Card 4GB NVIDIA GEFORCE GTX 960 - DVI, HDMI, 3 x DP - 3D Vision Ready
1st Hard Disk 2TB SEAGATE 3.5" SSHD, SATA 6Gb/s 7200 RPM (64MB + 8GB SSD CACHE)
2nd Hard Disk 2TB SATA-III 3.5" HDD, 6GB/s, 7200RPM, 64MB CACHE
M.2 SSD Drive 256GB M.2 2280, SATA 6Gb/s (561MB/R, 296MB/W)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive 24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER ±R/±RW/RAM
Memory Card Reader INTERNAL 52 IN 1 CARD READER (XD, MS, CF, SD, etc) + 1 x USB 2.0 PORT
Power Supply CORSAIR 350W VS SERIES™ VS-350 POWER SUPPLY
Processor Cooling Corsair H55 Hydro Series High Performance CPU Cooler
Thermal Paste STANDARD THERMAL PASTE FOR SUFFICIENT COOLING
Sound Card ONBOARD 6 CHANNEL (5.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Wireless/Wired Networking 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT (Wi-Fi NOT INCLUDED)
USB Options MIN. 2 x USB 3.0 & 2 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL + MIN. 2 FRONT
PORTS
Power Cable 1 x 1 Metre UK Power Cable (Kettle Lead)
Operating System Genuine Windows 10 Home 64 Bit - inc DVD & Licence
Operating System Language United Kingdom - English Language
DVD Recovery Media Windows 10 (64-bit) Home DVD with paper sleeve
Office Software FREE 30 Day Trial of Microsoft® Office® 365
Anti-Virus BullGuard™ Internet Security - Free 90 Day License inc. Gamer Mode
Browser Microsoft® Edge (Windows 10 Only)
Monitor ASUS VE228TR 21.5" LED DISPLAY, D-Sub, DVI-D
Monitor Cables 1 x 2 METRE GOLD PLATED V1.4 HDMI CABLE
Keyboard & Mouse LOGITECH® K120 USB KEYBOARD
Mouse LOGITECH® OPTICAL USB MOUSE



Any feedback greatly appreciated!
gptech
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by gptech »

Option 1:

Decent, but only 2GB od vRAM. It may well be very proprietary in terms of the internal components.

Option 2:

Lovely looking machine, but once again liable to be very proprietary. Whilst there's no hard evidence to suggest AMD graphics are *worse* then nVidia, it's certainly fair to say that the Intel/nVidia combination seems to work best for TS.

Option 3

The best in my opinion, albeit with a couple of revisions:
Because this is a very configurable machine, change the GPU to a nVidia 4GB 960/970 (£50-£75 on top), and whilst an SSD is extremely fast 120GB ain't gonna be near big enough. Make sure there's another drive with ample room on it for all your other stuff.
Personally I'd swap the SSD for a 1TB conventional drive, and add a 256GB M.2 drive for the O/S, move up to a 650W PSU rather than the 450 as standard, and stick with the standard Intel cooler/thermal paste for the CPU--you only need to look at a *better* cooler if you're seriously overclocking, the standard cooler is more than enough when you run at stock speeds or with a mild overclock. That's £997---yes, slightly over your budget but you definitely have more flexibility with the spec than the first 2 options. If the price really does need to come down, consider using the graphics card from your old PC and save 200 quid or so--you can always get a new graphics card later.
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Trev123
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by Trev123 »

Yes stay away from computers made by HP, Lenovo, Dell etc, as if you wanted to upgrade parts in them you could find it very hard to do.
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Re: New Computer - new opportunity!

Post by TransportSteve »

For your power supply you really need a Corsair 650/700w at least, and ensure you have a big case to get everything in, you'll require at least 2 fans as well, if not 3, don't forget that your computer is going to last 4/5 years, depending on your budget, which I would suggest you upping to at least £1,000 rather than £500, which doesn't get you much these days. May I suggest you obtain at least 8GB RAM, a CPU of 3.5GHz at least a 2GB graphics card and an Operating Server of 64 bit, as bare MINIMUM, with the games these days including Payware content such as Flight Sim and Railworks stuff, plus other PC games like Battlefield, Call of Duty, Dirt 3 Rally, etc, these eat into your resources quite heavily, so, you need to have a minimum specification to be able to cope, and in a couple of years time, those specs will be at least the minimum recommendation from most developers, who are already offering 4GB graphics cards and DirectX12. I would also suggest that you get at least 2 hard drives installed, I have 3, which I split up, so, 1 has your OS and all your operating goodies, like anti virus stuff on, etc, etc, and the other 2 drives are for Railworks and the last one has an assortment of games, but, as they are away from the C:Drive, when I got a virus a couple of years ago, I only had to re-install the OS again and everything else in the other areas of my PC were left unharmed, if you have everything all on one drive, especially these days they encourage you to get a 1TB/2TB drive to put it all on, if you get a virus you lose everything and have to start again, and believe me downloading and installing 1TB of games from Steam alone will take you over a week to complete, so, split your hard drives up, and possibly get yourself an SSD, but, that could be for the future, it's a back up if you spend too much dosh and have nowhere to put your games...... :lol:

Cheerz. Transport Steve.
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