Signals on the Riviera 1950's route

[theorganist]

Hello,

I have a query/conundrum with a scenario I am making.

It involves a scenario where you are driving an Western hauled express and you catch up with a slower moving service around the Dawlish/Teignmouth area.

On testing the scenario I have found what I am sure is an error in the signalling!

On the approach to Teignmouth I am under clear signals, I get to the home distant (?) which is at caution and the ATC ramp for the home signal sounds the warning horn. However it does not leave much time to stop the train in the short distance between the two signals resulting in me running into the back of the proceeding train which was still in the platform at Teignmouth. Admittedly maybe I shouldn't be doing line speed there as I am stopping at Teignmouth. However surely there should be enough distant to stop a train from distant to home signal at the given line speed. If it was coloured light signalling then presumably I would have got a double yellow, single yellow then red but I am not that au-fait with the vagaries of semaphore signals.

Not saying there is anything wrong it may be me misunderstanding but the signal before the home distant was definately clear as I have run the scenario a few times now.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Peter

[holzroller]

The signalling is quite correct from what you say. A driver who signed the route would be aware of where stopping distances were tight, and the pattern of the other trains on the route, and in the circumstances you describe he would anticipate the distant being on and control his speed accordingly. It might be that either track speed ar signal spacing is wrong in the sim, but I can think of some places long gone where you always reduced speed slightly in case the distant was on. In theory you should be able to stop your train from when you first see the distant, in time for the home. If you wait until you reach the distant signal before you brake then you may well not stop, unless of course your sight is restricted in which case the positioning of the distant should allow you to stop. There was once a way for the signalman in the rear to warn you if he knew that you would be stopped at the next block, but at present this cannot be done in TS, and it may not apply here anyway.

[michaelhendle]

Also remember the line speed in the 1950's were slower the average speed for say Castle would-be around the 70/75 mph mark,which means if you are going faster than that speed you might not stop in time.
If it's a summer timetable then,you will find on a Saturday from about 10.00,trains were working from one block to the next block,some slower trains might be looped at Starcross and Dawlish Warren,also during day time due to the amount of holiday trains there were hardly any freight trains running,they stopped about 05.00 and restarted again about 19.00.
Mike

[longbow]

Your issues reflect the fact that the signalling on this route is not realistic.

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... s#p1768539

[Carinthia]

I have a query/conundrum with a scenario I am making.

...

You are absolutely right.

At the moment there is little you can do other than create scenarios that avoid these problems and that means, with very few exceptions, conflictions with other traffic have to be avoided in scenarios.

Similar problems exist on the Weardale & Teesdale, including a Career Scenario in thick fog where you get a distant of, home off and starter on. Not very clever!

John

[theorganist]

Interesting points all.

It's a shame if they have gone backwards with semphore signalling as I thought they had improved it. I have noticed some odd behaviour including a home signal going from on to off then on again in front of me

I'll just have to bear it in mind when creating scenarios.

As said if you start braking before you're at the distant you should stop and I'll put a note in if I upload the scenario

Michael I too read the Summer Saturday's in the West book I found it very interesting and inspiring. I wanted to create the Summer Saturday's with trains along the see wall but the scenario editor seems to have a fit.

Peter

[theorganist]

Deleted - posted twice due to trying to type on my phone, bleary eyed and without my glasses on!!

Peter

[749006]

Having only just got the Riviera 50's route I'm late to this thread.

On the approach to Teignmouth I am under clear signals, I get to the home distant (?) which is at caution and the ATC ramp for the home signal sounds the warning horn.

In theory having seen the Distant at Danger it should be full brakes to stop at the home signal releasing them as you are slowing down to provide a smooth stop.

If it was coloured light signalling then presumably I would have got a double yellow, single yellow then red.

You would only have 4 aspect signalling if the line speed was above a certain limit or traffic warrants the extra flexibility.

On L2P it's 4 aspects on the Fast lines but only 3 aspects on the Slow with the same Signal spacing.
Or NNL and GEML where the line speed is slower but the 4 aspects allow an increase in TPH (Trains Per Hour).

Peter

[theorganist]

Having only just got the Riviera 50's route I'm late to this thread.

On the approach to Teignmouth I am under clear signals, I get to the home distant (?) which is at caution and the ATC ramp for the home signal sounds the warning horn.

In theory having seen the Distant at Danger it should be full brakes to stop at the home signal releasing them as you are slowing down to provide a smooth stop.

If it was coloured light signalling then presumably I would have got a double yellow, single yellow then red.

You would only have 4 aspect signalling if the line speed was above a certain limit or traffic warrants the extra flexibility.

On L2P it's 4 aspects on the Fast lines but only 3 aspects on the Slow with the same Signal spacing.
Or NNL and GEML where the line speed is slower but the 4 aspects allow an increase in TPH (Trains Per Hour).

Peter

Thanks for that Peter, interesting information. I need to do more research into signalling.

Peter

[rkk01]

So, are the Exeter - Kingswear signals a good set to use for a GW route???

I know there are excellent freeware semaphores, but do the E-K ones give a more comprehensive set?

[choccy]

There are lots of them, but it was noted, in a previous thread, that they have invariably used 5ft signals for the main line when they should have been 4ft. That's why they look rather odd.

Mark

[Carinthia]

The size is not the issue. The fact that a distant clears with the home clear but the starter at danger is a major issue to a driver.

If the only scenarios will be ones where the signals are always clear for the player train then they will do no harm.

John

[longbow]

Alternatively you could set your scenarios on the Glorious Devon route, which has more realistic signalling.

[theorganist]

Alternatively you could set your scenarios on the Glorious Devon route, which has more realistic signalling.

I haven't a problem with the route I think it is well detailed and full of atmosphere, I can handle the signalling issue I was just unsure whether it was correct or not.

The Glorious Devon route looks wonderful but to get it I need the two Creative Rail Routes which would cost well in excess of £40 which I cannot justify spending, although I would like the ECML set as it looks nice. Maybe if it ever comes up in a sale. Also I really enjoy the Kingswear section which I believe is not included in the Glorious Devon route?

Peter

[Drogba11CFC]

Alternatively you could set your scenarios on the Glorious Devon route, which has more realistic signalling.

I've found that sometimes, the signals on the Glorious Devon route require tabbing past.