Riviera pannier

[anthonye]

But no good if you can't couple most things

Anthony

[tagsdm]

But no good if you can't couple most things

+1

tagsdm

[stuart666]

I will go back to the Falmouth tank with the SSS pack installed

There are some excellent re-skins here in the library too.

tagsdm

... but the physics don't work on hills

It does you know. You just have to open the damper full, stoke it up well, and dont go at the hill like a bull and a gate. Ive hauled 270 tons happily up a 1-66 on WLOS. You just have to be careful how you do it.

The real problem is when the pannier came out, it had no dsvs with it at all and was massively overpowered. On a 1-66 its going to be underpowered. Its inevitable, its not a class 08.

[ChrisBarnes]

The real problem is when the pannier came out, it had no dsvs with it at all and was massively overpowered. On a 1-66 its going to be underpowered. Its inevitable, its not a class 08.

Ahhhh! So that is how I managed to take a 12 coach train from Truro to Falmouth no problem when the Falmouth Branch first came out 5-6 years ago - remembering that doesn't make me feel old at all...

So there is nothing that can be done about it then, unless you know what to do, as I don't.

If you are familiar with editing .xml files then it's not too difficult to edit the bogie file, if it is different to the Falmouth one. If the node and animation references are the same, you could just copy and paste the Falmouth bogie blueprint to the Riviera pannier's bogie folder, back up the Riviera bogie blueprint and rename the copied Falmouth file to what the Riviera one was called. But I must stress, I haven't checked the panniers out for myself to try and diagnose the issue, so this suggestion of it being the bogie causing the problem could well be barking up the wrong tree for all I know. I think the best thing to do is report the problem to DTG, since they've been releasing fixes for the UP GTEL so I imagine they will fix the pannier if they are made aware of the problem.

Kind regards,
Chris

[rkk01]

It does you know. You just have to open the damper full, stoke it up well, and dont go at the hill like a bull and a gate. Ive hauled 270 tons happily up a 1-66 on WLOS. You just have to be careful how you do it.

But 1:66 isn't that challenging? Yes the Falmouth Pannier will handle 1:60 - 1:70 gradients ok. But I need it to cope with long sections at a much steeper grade, which the Riviera Pannier does seem to be capable of. I will try again with the Falmouth version over the w/e, but my test to date have failed miserably

[stuart666]

It does you know. You just have to open the damper full, stoke it up well, and dont go at the hill like a bull and a gate. Ive hauled 270 tons happily up a 1-66 on WLOS. You just have to be careful how you do it.

But 1:66 isn't that challenging? Yes the Falmouth Pannier will handle 1:60 - 1:70 gradients ok. But I need it to cope with long sections at a much steeper grade, which the Riviera Pannier does seem to be capable of. I will try again with the Falmouth version over the w/e, but my test to date have failed miserably

Well I think 1-66 is challenging, but of course opinions vary. Ultimately the 57xx had a victorian designed boiler, with no superheat. IT was really designed with shunting in mind, protracted runs on big hills were never giong to suit it well. I mean there is one way of looking at it, if it could that with no penalties, there would have been no need for a 56xx. When you get down to it, its really a 57xx with a rather bigger boiler and firebox. Same wheels, same cylinder size I think.

I read a comment that a 57xx could move about 900 tons. But I think if thats true it would have been on the flat, and wouldnt have gone far.

One might say the GWR belatedly realised that the boiler wasnt modern enough for sustained operation (its got a steam dome for heaven sake!), and built the 94xx, but if thats correct one has to say it came at the cost of making it unavailable to use on some routes. Horses for courses when you get down to it I guess.

[stuart666]

The real problem is when the pannier came out, it had no dsvs with it at all and was massively overpowered. On a 1-66 its going to be underpowered. Its inevitable, its not a class 08.

Ahhhh! So that is how I managed to take a 12 coach train from Truro to Falmouth no problem when the Falmouth Branch first came out 5-6 years ago - remembering that doesn't make me feel old at all...

So there is nothing that can be done about it then, unless you know what to do, as I don't.

If you are familiar with editing .xml files then it's not too difficult to edit the bogie file, if it is different to the Falmouth one. If the node and animation references are the same, you could just copy and paste the Falmouth bogie blueprint to the Riviera pannier's bogie folder, back up the Riviera bogie blueprint and rename the copied Falmouth file to what the Riviera one was called. But I must stress, I haven't checked the panniers out for myself to try and diagnose the issue, so this suggestion of it being the bogie causing the problem could well be barking up the wrong tree for all I know. I think the best thing to do is report the problem to DTG, since they've been releasing fixes for the UP GTEL so I imagine they will fix the pannier if they are made aware of the problem.

Kind regards,
Chris

Thats right. I actually was part of the team that cut the original down to size. I may have gone to far, but I still have the opinion the reason why most people objected to it, was they got used to it being massively overpowered. When it behaved a bit more like the original they gave up on it as having gone too far. Go figure.

The secret to getting it to work is shovel PAST the starting coal position on it, if its how I originally specced it up. You have to keep shovelling until its around 70-80 percent IIRC. If you have the damper open, AND use the blower whenever you stop in stations you should have no trouble with it.

Ultimately Falmouth is a difficult drive, but that shouldnt be a surprised. Its all peaks and troughs. the trick is to mostly shut the reg ont he downhill section and build the steam up.

[rkk01]

Ultimately, my interest in the performance of the two panniers is quiet selfish - I'm "building"* a South Wales route which includes the notorious "seven mile bank".

The route (Brecon to Merthyr / Dowlais) was too lightly built for the 56xx, so most trains were worked by the 57xx pannier and 2251 Collett Goods (with some 2MT and 45xx / 4575.

My point is that the route was worked in real life by the 57xx. The Riviera Pannier copes with prototypical timings, but the Falmouth Pannier (with my attempts so far) cannot cope. Reduce reverser to 25-35% to save steam and it slows to <10mph (25-35% being good settings for the Riviera Pannier). Keep the reverser at 45+% and the boiler empties in double quick time

And yes, I'm experienced enough steam sim driver to have the dampers open, fire built up, safeties blowing before leaving Talybont, etc...

It may have been designed as a Victorian shunting engine, but the Pannier was ubiquitous across the former GW system, including on some of its most challenging routes.

I will hope for a DTG fix for the coupler error on the Riviera Pannier and also persist in my attempts to find the best settings for hill climbing with the Falmouth Pannier...!