1950's Riviera disappointment

[AndiS]

Thanks for all the care. I guess I am fine now.

Disk space is at 90%. Menus look like in the manual. I would not think the installation is garbled. I simply let it update after making a full backup. It ran to completion and never started downloading again.

I did not try the "clear cache" thing. Might do that when I had time. Assumed it is for different things (like crashes from bad links or missing assets). I have none such problems.

I run TS2016 in a 1024x768 window to be able to have other windows open alongside. The left and right arrows are large enough. The print "page 1/.." is so small. But now that I spotted it, I know that is sounds unbelievable to miss this control. But really this is all very cluttered and chaotic. I just save everyone's time in not repeating what others have said. Just plain bad work on the GUI front.


Regarding the missing assets, all I did is start LogMate with the game. That is the default setup here as all I ever do is debugging signals. I got the following messages, in different numbers of repetitions.

Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : RSC, WestSomerset
Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 448 = Blueprint set not found for: RailNetwork\Speedsigns\Arrow_Speed_L.xml

Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : RSC, WestSomerset
Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 448 = Blueprint set not found for: RailNetwork\Speedsigns\Arrow_Speed_R.xml

Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : RSderek, WearValleyRailway
Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 448 = Blueprint set not found for: Lights\Spotlight_Yard.xml

Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : RSderek, WearValleyRailway
Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 448 = Blueprint set not found for: Scenery\Procedural\WVR_TrackCrossingFiller_End.xml

Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : RSC, RivieraLine
Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 448 = Blueprint set not found for: RouteMarkers\flag.xml

I also got some message about an Edit Camera 001 for which I first need to find out whether that is related to some hack I did years ago, so I did not mention it.

You see that there is nothing in my old install that could reference to RSC/WestSomerset and it clearly is the route that was loaded when the messages appeared and I simply don't have the WestSomerset folder in RSC and I don't believe it should be there for the two arrows alone. There is one asset with WSR prefix in the signal list. I did not check where that sits now. But at any rate, it is not a case of failed download for sure.


Regarding DTG and RW-Tools, I did some research and cannot find anything. I have faint memories of them being unhappy that it makes edits with complex consequences look easy so people mess up their installation and then go complain how bad RW (KRS) is. I remember myself people asking for help after destroying their route big time (like deleting reference files or reverting an old, incomplete backup). Often it had nothing to do with RW-Tools at all. It was just a plague back in the early days when everyone was still learning. So I will kick that piece of folklore out of my bag of tales, promise.

Myself, I developed similar stuff but without a proper user interface. So I never used the real RW-Tools, but sometimes I do stuff that people do with RW-Tools.

What I meant in my post is this: Before you ship anything, you must use some software that goes through all the track, road, loft, scenery, and scenario files and checks if the referenced items are there, and the provider/product is in the include list of the route. And for all assets, you need to check whether all the stuff they reference is there.

I sent infamous amounts of error messages to RSDL back in 2008 or so and I was a bit shocked that they haven't installed a fat block against such issues in 2015.

It is pretty simple. And it can be replaced by installing the product on a vanilla install and see what LogMate says. So if you take the time to reinstall RW all the time, you don't even need any software. But bespoke software can tell you where exactly you use the flawed reference.


Regarding changes, it would be sooo cool if they brought out information on such changes as with the Ctrl-TAB instead of Shift-TAB. Or did I miss it? I did read the whole manual now, on your suggestion, but this is the only new thing to me since 2007. Except for Quick Drive and Academy and all the other new inventions, of course.

I read the Riviera manual, too. It has a page on the Pannier (that I tried today), quoting the Ideal Fire Mass but not the maximum boiler pressure which is the second thing I need to know to get the best performance out of it. That much about manuals.

I guess you are supposed to do the Academy scenarios first. Reading the manual and having a go is not expected user behaviour.

At any rate, I'm about to return to normal mode. I got a bunch of lovely freight wagons, great engines and nice buildings for a few beers.

[gptech]

I also got some message about an Edit Camera 001 for which I first need to find out whether that is related to some hack I did years ago, so I did not mention it.

That one comes up in just about every logmate trace that's been posted in here...I'd say it's pretty safe to ignore it, I do anyway!

I got the following messages, in different numbers of repetitions.Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : RSC, WestSomersetTrace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 448 = Blueprint set not found for: RailNetwork\Speedsigns\Arrow_Speed_L.xml....

Think of logmate as a pointer or a guide, something that's possibly flawed (like many of the routines from KRS days--reskin blueprint in particular) so it's conceivable that it reads more than it needs to. OK that doesn't explain the odd references there but if the route loads OK, plays OK it doesn't matter one bit.

I run TS2016 in a 1024x768 window

How does the text/menus behave at full screen?

And it can be replaced by installing the product on a vanilla install and see what LogMate says

I have one of those. Not now, 'cos it's bedtime, but after work I'll run logmate whilst loading the route to see if I see the same messages.

it would be sooo cool if they brought out information on such changes as with the Ctrl-TAB instead of Shift-TAB. Or did I miss it?

Documentation/support has never been their strong point, that's undeniable but it was certainly reported in here. You can access a list of the key board commands whilst playing by pressing 'Esc', or pausing the game with the HUD button and one of the options in the wee window is 'Keyboard Commands' or something like that--chances are that that's where the information came from.

Regarding DTG and RW-Tools...

Yeah, probably folklore....

I got a bunch of lovely freight wagons, great engines and nice buildings for a few beers.

For???...you gave up beers for a game?????
You DO need help...

[AndyUK]

...Regarding DTG and RW-Tools, I did some research and cannot find anything.....

Was this what you were thinking about Andi? http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=130159

Andy L

[Carinthia]

That thread is just a load of bumped up hysteria. Nobody can expect a developer to "support" another developer's product.

John

[AndiS]

I got the following messages, in different numbers of repetitions.Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : RSC, WestSomersetTrace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 448 = Blueprint set not found for: RailNetwork\Speedsigns\Arrow_Speed_L.xml....

Think of logmate as a pointer or a guide, something that's possibly flawed (like many of the routines from KRS days--reskin blueprint in particular) so it's conceivable that it reads more than it needs to. OK that doesn't explain the odd references there but if the route loads OK, plays OK it doesn't matter one bit.

I consider such errors performance hogs. The route takes long to load and stutters often (on my computer), which can have 10 different reasons. I would feel better if the game would not loose time with missing assets. LogMate is not an off-line tool like mine or Mike's that takes the data and checks everything, including stuff that may never have any bearing. (There are always some odd pieces of track that no one ever sees nor travels, so errors on them are irrelevant.) LogMate reports what is happening while you look at it. Every time you see a message, this means that right now the game really would like to have that asset.

I run TS2016 in a 1024x768 window

How does the text/menus behave at full screen?

Not sure they got much bigger. But then again, full screen is 1280x1024, so what would one expect?

What matters more is that I never used the Workshop and Marketplace before. There, you have the same style of "page 1/..." controls. So I was expected to know that and be on the lookout for it. I am an odd customer for a franchise that lives on selling add-ons.

it would be sooo cool if they brought out information on such changes as with the Ctrl-TAB instead of Shift-TAB. Or did I miss it?

Documentation/support has never been their strong point, that's undeniable but it was certainly reported in here. You can access a list of the key board commands whilst playing by pressing 'Esc', or pausing the game with the HUD button and one of the options in the wee window is 'Keyboard Commands' or something like that--chances are that that's where the information came from.

I actually used that a lot recently, since I forgot the short-cuts for dampers and such and they don't seem to be supported in the F4 controls. However, I did that on a totally different occasion than dealing with the in-game overlay. That was when I read on the net that you need the overlay for the Shop icon to become clickable. I have no purpose for the in-game overlay normally, so I switched it on (outside the game) and remembered that there was this collision.

The point was just that we need change information. Sure it is correctly shown in the documentation. But with a new version of the game every year, are we expected to compare manuals side by side to find out about such details?

I got a bunch of lovely freight wagons, great engines and nice buildings for a few beers.

For???...you gave up beers for a game?????
You DO need help...

No worries. TS2016 did not influence my beer consumption either way.


On a side note, when I tried TS2016 last, I did a Quick Drive to Kingswear and found a train placed at the platform to which I was routed. Can we call that a suboptimal set-up? Or a bug of the game? Or am I supposed to set switches in Quick Drive mode?

[gptech]

Logmate traces:

As a baseline, log generated by just loading the game:

Code: Select all

[RunTimeError 20:18:06] Trace mdump.cpp : 422 = error handlers have been set
[Content 20:18:07] Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : Kuju, RailSimulatorCore
[Content 20:18:07] Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 448 = Blueprint set not found for: Cameras\EditCamera001.xml

There's the first anomaly, the camera one seems to be a constant (as noted before) in every Logmate trace anybody runs.

Loading the Riviera 50s route in the World Editor and also when loading an empty Free Roam scenario:

As above, plus lots of others relating to West Somerset and Weardale

Code: Select all

Content 20:25:40] Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : RSC, WestSomerset
[Content 20:25:40] Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : RSC, WestSomerset
[Content 20:25:40] Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : RSderek, WearValleyRailway
[Content 20:25:40] Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 448 = Blueprint set not found for: Lights\Spotlight_Yard.xml
[Content 20:25:40] Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 417 = Blueprint set not found : RSderek, WearValleyRailway
[Content 20:25:40] Trace cBlueprintLibrary.cpp : 448 = Blueprint set not found for: Lights\Spotlight_Yard.xml

The Riviera .ap archive contains it's own version of the Spotlight_Yard.bin, which oddly enough seems to be a copy of the one from Woodhead, having

Code: Select all

<DisplayName>
						<Localisation-cUserLocalisedString>
							<English d:type="cDeltaString">WH Spotlight Yard</English>

as it's displayed name.
Why Logmate throws up the 'not found' message is a mystery, according to RW Tools no assets from Weardale are used (could somebody run their copy through RW Tools to confirm/deny this?) so in the best tradition of grabbing at straws.....

Does the asset have an 'internal' name which we can't read with the tools available and this is what Logmate is displaying?
Is Logmate telling porkies?
As Logmate tracks everything that's happening in the program is it reporting not being able to load (which is different to 'missing') the asset because something other than the Riviera 50s route is wanting it?

Enough doubt there to NOT be able to say conclusively that the route is loading/failing to load the asset. Remember the contents of every pre-load folder get loaded at some point in the process; it could be from one of those.
All conjecture, but not something that slows the loading down by the amount/severity that you're describing...rather than it being a performance hog (if it ain't loading, it ain't hogging RAM/CPU cycles after the few milliseconds it takes the game to attempt the load before moving on) it's a very tiny pause in the proceedings.
You're 'blaming' these (possibly) missing items for your performance woes but have a full and fragmented hard drive---that has the possibility of causing much more lag and pauses than a handful of errant scenery items. Have you done anything to try and alleviate the situation? What are the specs of your machine?--I assume they're high enough but it would help us all to be able to gauge just what you should be experiencing.

The point was just that we need change information. Sure it is correctly shown in the documentation. But with a new version of the game every year, are we expected to compare manuals side by side to find out about such details?

Engine Driver is the place to keep an eye on for details of changes, http://www.engine-driver.com/, but is it reasonable to expect them to document changes from TS2013? These pages here are also a good source of information regarding changes, if not written in an easy to find form a question about things usually brings a swift response with the answer.

I did a Quick Drive to Kingswear and found a train placed at the platform to which I was routed. Can we call that a suboptimal set-up? Or a bug of the game?

Personally I'd call it another example of the foibles of the QD system that leaves me convinced it's not quite mature enough; it's getting there, has improved tremendously since it's first release and will eventually get there. However, this further *glitch* you've found still doesn't put the blame singularly on the route, it could easily be a failing in the QD system rather than a route or bundled consists issue. Has it happened again, has it happened on other routes, have you seen any reports of others having the same problem?

You say the route takes along time to load...to borrow from The Smiths, how soon is now? Not too long ago we had a member commenting that scenarios took 5 minutes to load, when pressed and eventually timing them properly it transpired this 5 minutes was really closer to 2 1/2---still maybe a long time, but without doing anything his problem was cut in half. Time how long it takes, post your specs and what in-game settings you're using and between the lot of us we'll get there.

[AndiS]

Thanks for pointing out that the EditCamera001 message is irrelevant and present in your installation, too. I wasn't sure where it came from but not too worried either.

I fired up my 6-year old tools to find these references to WestSomerset and WearValleyRailway but failed to find them. This can have several reasons, most pivoting around the fact that RW moved on and my tools did not. I am sure it pays off to spend more time on them. They were important when RW crashed if something track-related was missing. RW is much more stable now (for years), thus such complicated and complex analysis is not needed all that much.

Amusingly, I found DTG\ExeterKingswear\Scenery\Iconic\19_Drayton_Apartments\19_Drayton_Apartments being referenced on Scenery tile -000005-000021. I seems located at the south-west corner of the tile.

The fact that LogMate did not show that is easily explained by starting far from that tile. I always close LogMate quickly now as the messages from signals fill it fast and you need to clear it quite often or else it slows the game down. This is nothing to do with the Riviera route, of course.

I did not mean to blame the missing assets for all my loading time. It is pretty clear that it is mostly about my computer. I am not expanding on that as it has nothing to do with the route. However, I am not convinced that these missing assets are irrelevant, and that was the whole point of reporting them.

19_Drayton_Apartments may well be some modern building that was taken out for the 50ies version. And they just did not delete it in World Editor before removing the asset from the folder. It is referenced exactly once, so really nothing is lost in the case (assuming it does not leave a noticeable hole in the scenery).

The arrows are used more often and not having them at the speed signs where they ought to be may well be irritating.

It is pretty clear that lots of assets get copied around, like that spotlight. This is due to the current scheme of self-contained packs of route plus assets. I noted a few surprising prefixes in the asset list but I am not bean counter enough to even list these cases. I also noted quite a few modern buildings with EK prefix, but that is not a complaint, just to be clear.


I never demanded a transition guide from 2013 to 2016. All I would love to see is a good index or keywording scheme at engine-driver that lets you find information without wading through stuff you are not interested at the moment. I appreciate that it is a successful attempt at maintaining interest in the product and showing a bit of insight. But as a repository of knowledge, it is just too chaotic. And older articles seem to be dropped. Anyway I found information on TS2015, but not TS2014.

Likewise Quick Drive has nothing to do with the route. I was just interested as people mentioned that AI timing could depend on the player train. At least the trains for the opposite direction seem to leave their spawning point at a sensible time. But what do I know? I just tried it very few times. I like the selection easy process of route end train, and it is a much-asked feature. But I have no problem writing it off again. I will not really miss it, personally.

[gptech]

I fired up my 6-year old tools to find these references to WestSomerset and WearValleyRailway but failed to find them. This can have several reasons, most pivoting around the fact that RW moved on and my tools did not.

The latest version of RW Tools throws up no reference to them either, so why Logmate does is an interesting one. I doubt it has a significant impact on how the game/route/scenarios run and could as easily be a glitch in the reporting tool (and/or it's mechanism for checking) as a problem with any route or scenario. A little side project for someone with the programming/investigative skills perhaps?

It is pretty clear that it is mostly about my computer. I am not expanding on that as it has nothing to do with the route. However, I am not convinced that these missing assets are irrelevant, and that was the whole point of reporting them.

Nothing to do with the route directly, but the base performance of any system 'colours' anyone's judgement of any product so has to be something that's taken into consideration when trying to evaluate just how well/badly an application runs. Think along the lines of those with 'weaker' systems having problems with the 3D track used in JT's Newcastle-Edinburgh giving a poor impression of the route--a switch to the less demanding 2D track suddenly (in most cases reported thus far) elevates the route to one with a "Wow!!, superb" rating.
Missing scenic assets are (mostly) irrelevant; I'd say most of us are running routes from the UKTS library with a certain number of scenic items missing as we haven't got the DLC those items are from--said routes performing admirably . Different with track linked objects of course!
Whether the items are actually 'missing' though is still un-proven; Logmate indicates they are, RW Tools doesn't, so which one do we believe?