Trent Valley Signals Question

749006 · Post by **749006** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:06 pm

Having done a quick drive from Rugby to Stafford I think there is a problem with the signals.

I would have thought there would be some warning to the driver he is going to go thru a slow speed crossing - like flashing yellows.
Approaching Nuneaton from the south if you are on a Pendolino you will be doing 125 at a Double Yellow with a 40 speed restriction at the following signal.

The Approaching Stafford you have a Green going in to Queensville Curve then Double Yellow on the curve with the signal outside the station showing a Single Yellow and Position 1 indicator for a 25 mph crossing.

Anyone else noticed this problem - or it it the route does have Flashing Yellows but they are not showing correctly on my system?

Thanks

Peter

JasVick · Post by **JasVick** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:04 pm

Hmm...,

Glad Im not the only one who thinks this, its not just on quick drive either. Not checked the signals yet, am guessing they are either the wrong signal asset or they haven't been configured correctly. Think it applies to more than one of the junctions too if I remember correctly.

skoda · Post by **skoda** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 9:26 pm

Should be flashing yellows on the approach to Attleborough south junction when your being turned onto the down Trent valley slow (lines go from 3 to 4) as its a 75 mph Junction .
Not sure about the next crossover (Nuneaton south) but its marked up as a 40mph crossover so you would of thought that speed would require flashing yellows .

I'm fairly sure its the same up at Colwich when passing from the Down Trent valley fast to the down Trent valley slow just before the junction , Its a 65mph crossover and is signalled using flashing yellows for the move in real life . I got overtaken by a liner north of Rugeley in a quick drive session and that was given the road in front of me at Colwich towards Stafford , I don't remember the AI train having flashing yellows on the approach to the crossover ??

deltic009 · Post by **deltic009** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:04 pm

Flashing yellows are used for faster diverging routes, the lower the speed the less likely it will use flashing signals and will use a form of track approach. 40mph and 25mph would be a waste of effort, the 25mph one should be held at danger until you get near the magnet or within close sight of the signal.

skoda · Post by **skoda** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:32 pm

Not necessarily as Water Orton west Junction had flashing yellows when routed towards Coleshill and that was 30 mph (when I signed it) , Norton Bridge has flashing yellows and that's 30 and not forgetting Doxey Junction (north of Stafford) that's 30 Mph and has Flashing yellows in both directions (Plus its relevant to this route and thread) .

37114 · Post by **37114** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:41 am

deltic009 wrote:Flashing yellows are used for faster diverging routes, the lower the speed the less likely it will use flashing signals and will use a form of track approach. 40mph and 25mph would be a waste of effort, the 25mph one should be held at danger until you get near the magnet or within close sight of the signal.

That was the original intention but they're being used more and more now for slower speed junctions as well.

deltic009 · Post by **deltic009** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 9:52 am

skoda wrote:Not necessarily as Water Orton west Junction had flashing yellows when routed towards Coleshill and that was 30 mph (when I signed it) , Norton Bridge has flashing yellows and that's 30 and not forgetting Doxey Junction (north of Stafford) that's 30 Mph and has Flashing yellows in both directions (Plus its relevant to this route and thread) .

Oops, I used to sign all of those routes too. It's amazing what things you forget quickly. Carry on.

749006 · Post by **749006** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:37 pm

I wonder if this fault with the signals should be a RT3185 to Thomson or DTG?

37114 · Post by **37114** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:20 pm

749006 wrote:I wonder if this fault with the signals should be a RT3185 to Thomson or DTG?

Surely the route builder is responsible for correct signalling but the signalling in general does have it's limitations in terms of being prototypical.

skoda · Post by **skoda** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:43 pm

The flashing yellow sequence on the UK pro signals doesn't step up to a less restrictive aspect when you approach the junction signal , So your running past a single yellow with a 50/50 chance that the next one could actually be at red . I don't think I've been in a session or quick drive situation where it has been red but there's always a first time for everything .
It's been a few years since I drove the full size version but I do remember the earlier Railworks sessions where you where chasing yellows to keep up your score and some of these signalling situations used to make me feel really uneasy , Going against the grain of everything I'd been taught .

Though not as bad as an MSTS experience I had once on the Great Eastern route where I was running early and a timetabled ai train suddenly spawned in front of me whilst I was doing 70+ .... I literally jumped out my seat

749006 · Post by **749006** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 5:57 pm

skoda wrote:The flashing yellow sequence on the UK pro signals doesn't step up to a less restrictive aspect when you approach the junction signal , So your running past a single yellow with a 50/50 chance that the next one could actually be at red .

I get that but it's wrong to pass a Double Yellow at 85mph and find the next signal to be Single Yellow with a 25mph restriction.

Peter

skoda · Post by **skoda** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:51 pm

In that situation then the signal protecting the junction needs to be set up with approach control , Held at red until the approaching train gets to a certain distance from it and then it clears to a less restrictive aspect (as long as the line beyond it is clear) .
I believe the original kuju signals have this function but not the UK pro , Setting up the function with the UK pro signals results in it restricting to 1 yellow with the junction indicator lit and like the flashing yellow setting it also remains at one yellow and doesn't step up as you approach it .

I seem to remember reading many moons ago on either here or another forum that they used to work correctly then the coding in the game got changed ?

phat2003uk · Post by **phat2003uk** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:54 pm

I'm not sure the approach control has ever worked correctly with the 'Pro' signals unfortunately.

spellow3010 · Post by **spellow3010** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:03 pm

In answer to the OP - Attleborough (Down TV Fast to Down TV Slow) is flashing yellow approach if the route ahead is clear. Nuneaton South Junction (the 40mph turn out) further along just before the station is MAR (Main Aspect Restricted) - the junction protecting signal should clear on approach.

Just checked with the bobby - and they know best.

749006 · Post by **749006** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 12:20 pm

And another error at Nuneaton on the Up Slow.
Wizz along the Up Slow at 75 on Green Signals and notice in the HUD I'm routed to the Up Fast at Attleborough North.
75 to 65 is not much of a change in speed but no warning.

The Flashing YY & Y aproaching Colwich Jn to route UM to US worked ok as did UF to US approaching Rugby.

Peter

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