WHL South from DTG and Milepost Simulations

[Carinthia]

Since it is not a Thomson product, I'm happy that this will be able to support the AP 37 and Mk1 soundpacks. I'm also interested if the RETB will be compatible with the WHLE and Kyle Line 37s.

RETB was introduced on the line in 1988. The route is apparently set in 1980 so, as a pleasant change from the other routes in the area, it should be provided with conventional semaphore signalling which for some of us will make it rather more interesting. Little would have changed in the years leading up to 1980 apart from the relocation of Fort William station in 1975 so there will be plenty of scope for scenarios over a wide range of dates with engines other than the included Class 37.

John

[Rockdoc2174]

I can certainly echo pjt1974's comments. I bought WHL in a sale and, although I have completed one run along the line, it's already been relegated to the dusty corner of routes I'll only run once in a blue moon. It isn't the changes in operation that get me but the endless, low-speed single line stretches where you can't enjoy the scenery - which is the biggest selling point of the line in TS and real life - because you have to keep a strict eye on the speed as the gradients are steep and constantly changing. Basically, I find it extremely boring. WHL is very limited in scope for scenarios and this southern extension is unlikely to be any different so I'll be hard to persuade to buy.

Compare it to W&T. That's also got long stretches of single line but it has that indefinable thing - atmosphere. There are plenty of places to send trains to and from so the scope for scenarios is considerable. I was surprised by how much this appeals to me but it's a route I keep coming back to.

Now if only I could discover the secret of route atmosphere and bottle it!

Keith

[TransportSteve]

Well, I'm sorry, but having watched the Twitch preview, this is another route for me to avoid. I appreciate that this is a WIP, but, I'd like to know what research these authors do when building these types of routes. I was immediately drawn to the deciduous trees, all the same height, mile after mile after mile, where is the variation? The hills all appear to be the same green colour, and little change in the variation of vegetation on the moorlands. The other major issue is that each station only has 1/2 buildings and a couple of lamp-posts, NO platform signs to tell you where you are, NO clutter, and certainly NO flower beds that were predominant at EVERY station in Scotland in the late 1970s early 80s and the platforms were also a totally different shade of concrete. The West Highland Line created by Thomsons and Keith Ross got it bang on, a huge pity that Milepost Simulations didn't replicate some of those ideas in this project which unfortunately for me doesn't come close to reflecting this particular area of Scotland in the time frame period given, such a shame.

Cheerz. Transport Steve.

[31160]

I can certainly echo pjt1974's comments. I bought WHL in a sale and, although I have completed one run along the line, it's already been relegated to the dusty corner of routes I'll only run once in a blue moon. It isn't the changes in operation that get me but the endless, low-speed single line stretches where you can't enjoy the scenery - which is the biggest selling point of the line in TS and real life - because you have to keep a strict eye on the speed as the gradients are steep and constantly changing. Basically, I find it extremely boring. WHL is very limited in scope for scenarios and this southern extension is unlikely to be any different so I'll be hard to persuade to buy

Keith

To be honest i agree with you there, you can say the same with a preserved line in the game X amount of minutes trundling along at 25 MPH with no throttle gets a bit samey, and as you say what scenarios could you make for the line that it doesnt come with as released and as people say the JT Kyle route seams not to like any AI of any kind

[jimmyshand]

Dense foliage is the standout feature of WHL South. In parts the lineside veggies are so thick it looks like the previous service just hacked a way through with a machete on the front.
JT Kyle Line came closest I've seen to recreating single line running through dense foliage but from the clip of this new WHL route I don't think it's going to cut it. Looks too sparsely populated vegetation-wise. Crianlarich also looked like a ghost-village with only a handful of buildings.
I'll 100% buy this on day one as it's where I grew up but my hopes were dashed somewhat by the preview. The sounds were also abysmal with all expense spared on the 37 sounds and my oldest nemesis, the haunting Kuju snare drum track joints. As the physics on the 37 have been modified then it's unlikely AP will be able to update their pro pack so it will be a case of swapping out the driving loco for something with proper sounds.

[jimmyshand]

It is all down to personal preference. Some may find this kind of route boring but for example I recently bought the South London Network route in a sale and immediately wished I hadn't. That to me is immensely boring and despite a lengthy drive on it, I knew it was going to be consigned to the dusty bin and sure enough I've never touched it since. Same goes for GEML London to Ipswich, I forgot I had it it's so boring. At the risk of upsetting the old firm, I've not been that impressed with the new Teesdale route from RSDerek. It's ok but after several runs I'm not feeling the love and it certainly didn't match the pre-release hype. Not helped by the unbearable class 25 sounds. Completely undrivable in it's present audio status. The complete lack of workshop scenarios for this route would tend to indicate I'm not alone in feeling that way.
I do actually really enjoy the Kyle Line from JT. It is fatally flawed in terms of not being able to have any AI whatsoever, even the included scenarios just feature the odd static consist along the line, but the dense vegetation and challenging gradients make it a visual pleasure and a good workout to drive. Lots of full throttle running and constant changes.
You can't always put your finger on what make a route great and atmospheric. One of my all time faves is actually the freeware BR blue era Laneshaw Bridge route. That route oozes atmosphere more than any other and just reeks of 1980's diesel fumes...

[Rockdoc2174]

I have the same feelings about preserved lines. I'd love their creators to produce versions that are as they would have been in BR days or earlier, if only to increase the speed if nothing else. I love travelling on preserved lines but trying to keep to a low speed limit driving a big engine with three coaches on the back is not my idea of a challenge, even if it does replicate the train I sat in last week.

Keith

[pjt1974]

I've been up Fort William on my motorbike on holiday and stopped off to see the Jacobite, albeit, from a distance, and just the echo through the valley was enough for the hairs on the back of my neck stand up and I can only imagine the feeling you'd get as a passenger when you add those sounds to the smells as you're rocked around in a carriage all the way to Mallaig. Big smile on your face all the way, cannot wait for the return journey and coming back next year to do it all again.

Unfortunately, virtual reality can only replicate two senses, vision and sound and as Kieth pointed out, when driving, your attention is needed for driving so vision of the beautifully recreated scenery is all but taken away. Some may say that the challenge of the drive is part of the appeal of the route or routes, that is their opinion and, ofcourse, they are entitled to it but to me the whole idea of a 'romantic route' is the nostalgia and having all your senses stimulated and a simulator just doesn't do that for me. I'm from the Isle of Man, would I be excited if the line from Douglas to Port Erin was released for TS2015/16? Maybe, but only because my local line was being shown to the world. 16 miles there, 16 miles back, pass another service at Ballasalla, all good fun sat at your pc. Do it again tomorrow? not really, I'd rather play with the ai traffic on Trent Valley or struggle with a heavy load over Woodhead in a B1.

No doubt the WHL South will be a beautiful route to look at and have that first run wow factor and I wish the developers good luck and say well done on a great job of recreating the line.

[Varney]

Well, I'm sorry, but having watched the Twitch preview, this is another route for me to avoid. I appreciate that this is a WIP, but, I'd like to know what research these authors do when building these types of routes. I was immediately drawn to the deciduous trees, all the same height, mile after mile after mile, where is the variation? The hills all appear to be the same green colour, and little change in the variation of vegetation on the moorlands. The other major issue is that each station only has 1/2 buildings and a couple of lamp-posts, NO platform signs to tell you where you are, NO clutter, and certainly NO flower beds that were predominant at EVERY station in Scotland in the late 1970s early 80s and the platforms were also a totally different shade of concrete. The West Highland Line created by Thomsons and Keith Ross got it bang on, a huge pity that Milepost Simulations didn't replicate some of those ideas in this project which unfortunately for me doesn't come close to reflecting this particular area of Scotland in the time frame period given, such a shame.

Cheerz. Transport Steve.

Your views are spot on, the route looked mediocre.

I had hoped that Thomson & Keith would develop the route south from Fort William to link their outstanding WHLE with Glasgow Queen Street (already superbly modelled in Thomson's Edinburgh to Glasgow). I guess the chances of that are now virtually nil.

[rfletcher72]

NO platform signs to tell you where you are

I refer you to the very first post that opened this thread,

[TransportSteve]

Fair point Richard, but, they are not in a prominent position on the platform from the Twitch preview, he must have them hidden, or, taken them off, they aren't on the Bridge of Orchy platform, on the approach, or, where he stops the 37s -

Cheerz. Transport Steve.

EDIT: I've just spotted a blob of white hiding behind that lamppost, may be that is it, who knows?

[rosschris10]

one of these days Steve you will surprise us all and actually praise a route rather than nit pick lol

[august1929]

Despite adverse weather at times, the Highlands just aren't as monochromatic as they appear to be from Twitch. It is disappointing and despite the initial appeal because of where the route is (incorporating the fabulous Horse Shoe Curve and Ben Doran!) likely to be relegated to a sale.

The sidings in the Twitch shot above reminds me of 1950's Triang train track...

http://essexmodelsandminiatures.co.uk/b ... /standard/

Plenty of colour reference available on the web...

http://www.jules-merlin27.com/Trains/En ... cs-in-the/

http://www.photoscapes.eu/travel/whw97/ ... and-way-5/

Though to be fair, what really lets the scenery down is the poor quality distant (and middle!) mountains that the sim is currently capable of generating. Closer terrain isn't so bad in Milepost Simulations site...

http://milepostsimulations.com/whls.html

Rod

[atlasduff47]

Dense foliage is the standout feature of WHL South. In parts the lineside veggies are so thick it looks like the previous service just hacked a way through with a machete on the front.
JT Kyle Line came closest I've seen to recreating single line running through dense foliage but from the clip of this new WHL route I don't think it's going to cut it. Looks too sparsely populated vegetation-wise. Crianlarich also looked like a ghost-village with only a handful of buildings.
I'll 100% buy this on day one as it's where I grew up but my hopes were dashed somewhat by the preview. The sounds were also abysmal with all expense spared on the 37 sounds and my oldest nemesis, the haunting Kuju snare drum track joints. As the physics on the 37 have been modified then it's unlikely AP will be able to update their pro pack so it will be a case of swapping out the driving loco for something with proper sounds.

Oh dear, I wish I hadn't watched the preview, I was surprisingly left with an uninspired empty feeling, which is quite the opposite to what I was expecting!

I can't exactly put my finger on what I found disappointing, but have to agree with the points jimmyshand (probably not his real name) makes. The foliage and vegetation was not up to much and looked pretty much the same along the stretch featured, which it isn't in the real world. I did like the reskins of the 37...............but I hope that AP can come up with a patch for them despite the tweaked physics, otherwise they will be swapped out for something which sounds better, although I suppose it is possible to make the skins work with the default 37 and then hey presto we could use the AP pack . Maybe it would have been more enjoyable with one 37 up front giving more scope to work the engine more?

Your views are spot on, the route looked mediocre.

Mediocre may be a little strong, but it was just not as good as I was expecting.............maybe I need to manage my expectations? After everything I have said, I will still purchase the route, as it is relatively local to me, I drive the stretch between Fort William and Glasgow fairly regularly. In addition, I think it is important to remember as always that this is WIP, and I remain optimistic that there will still be a fair bit more work done before release.

[Drogba11CFC]

So do I; I don't get paid until the end of the month.