Disillusioned once more

[hertsbob]

EEK!

Quickly. Let's try and convince deltic to continue with his work! (and not that sort of work.... Sounds like he's done more than enough of that already!)

[thetrainfan]

Why people are so focussed in putting DTG down I don't know.

Surely the best action, should you want to be a wannabee post-release tester, is that if you find an issue - report it through the appropriate means on the Support email address??
I can't imagine a lot of DTG staff (if any) read UKTS on a regular basis, in which case this isn't the best place to try and get their attention really.
I'm not saying for one moment it's ideal to 'leave' bugs as they are; I'm just saying they should be dealt with in the prescribed manner.

And if anyone is wanting to have a go about the price for these routes, I think £24.99 is a very decent price for a network of this size and detail. Obviously years of hard work by Derek has been placed into this, I'm sure it would be quite hurtful seeing people trying to rip it to shreds and placing their findings on a public forum; unconstructive criticism.


My two penneth anyway.

Sean.

[ihavenonamenoreallyidont]

This all so circular and rather pointless.

People have paid money, they've a right to criticise. Other people have the right to defend.

Can I suggest that if the OP is genuinely offended, he leaves the forum (which would be a shame as his contributions are grand) and allows his blood pressure to recover. Probably a better idea than creating this thread and causing more in-fighting.

[gptech]

People have paid money, they've a right to criticise.

Nobody is denying that right; the issue is how they go about it--the almost glowing sense of pride that comes over when even the tiniest *fault* is uncovered.

Obviously years of hard work by Derek has been placed into this, I'm sure it would be quite hurtful seeing people trying to rip it to shreds

Not only Derek, but the many others who have contributed to get this route finally released. Too many forget that these guys are "real" people too, just like the rest of us and criticism that borders on snide comments hurts. As Mark wrote earlier, constructive criticism, directed in the right place, is much more likely to get dealt with than the "this is wrong, don't they know how it's done?" posts we're seeing more and more of.
Unfortunately we're now also seeing 'tit-for-tat' exchanges, as evidenced very early in this thread which furthers arguments (and yes, by posting that I'm probably as guilty)

Those who watched the Twitch preview will have seen and heard Derek talking about how the route is his representation of what he remembered it to be...more art than photo is a very apt description that's been used in another thread. He also spoke about things not being "just so", in order to make for enjoyable gameplay. In other words, a compromise; which is a word it seems many UKTS members don't know the meaning of.

[Varney]

So, after scanning through some of the responses in the Weardale and Teesdale route thread I once again find myself in a position of disbelief. Disbelief at the sheer ungratefulness and nitpicking from certain people in the community - those who don't seem to be able to appreciate that businesses need to focus on a broader appeal to maximise sales revenues?

These kind of comments are a constant source of draining motivation I have to use my fleeting spare time and effort producing items for the community to benefit from - and not least considering a complete cessation of uploads to public websites such as these. After all, why should I be prepared to watch hundreds of my hours of hard work get torn to shreds for the tiniest of things.

So I again find myself taking stock and seriously considering whether I should bother at all. So for now, I shall be observing this thread but downing tools once again - and who knows if I'll be able to pick them up again come August when my fourth bundle of joy arrives into the world.

Bye then.

It's almost as if some people wait eagerly for someone to post something negative, just so they can jump on their post. It's tiring and frankly driving people away from this forum.

[gptech]

OK...Asda car park, tomorrow at 2:30pm....let's get this sorted the old fashioned way.

[michaelhendle]

Matt
I hope after a few days you will change your mind and continue with your models you have in the pipeline,and I can't see anything wrong with a tree being close to the line and the train catching after all in real life it happens.
Maybe the problem with this wonderful route is trying to cover 3 decades i.e. late 1940's-mid 1970's,as up to the mid 60's things didn't change very much,but post mid 60's they and very quickly.
I hope this will taken as constructive criticism
I'm really pleased with the route and the locomotives and stock that came with it,thank you Derek and everyone else involved
Mike

[theorganist]

It's not neccaserily pointing out flaws that's the problem if you ask me,it's the manner in which it is done.
Mark

Agreed. davep's comment . . .

"Just seen it was available and bought the double-pack straight away.
Just playing a scenario (Darlington to Durham) and have noticed an error straight away."

. . . sounded almost like he was LOOKING for a problem, and was proud of himself for finding it. "It's a competition folks to be the first to find a mistake, and hey, I'm the winner, and the first to post about it!"

I suspect it's not quite how he meant it. But perhaps people should think more, and re-read the post, before they submit it

Chris

That is the conclusion I came to straight away when I read it.

If you are going to start criticising a product then at least be fair and point out the good points and well as what you see as bad points. Having just driven a scenario on this route for the first time I was blown away by what I have experienced and could list dozens of very positive points before coming to a couple of fairly minor discrepancies.

Just because it is a payware route doesn't mean to say people haven't put time and effort in and won't be upset to see it all denigrated because some people want to pick fault. Which then leads to the typical "bashing" which followed.

There is constructive criticism..................

Peter

[Merlin75]

Funny old forum this. People moan about these short A-B modern routes DTG have been doing. So here we have a network going back to the days of steam and green diesels and they rip it to bits. Devs are damned if they do and damned if they don't so they just can't win. As for Deltics work I hope he carry's on as he has done some outstanding work.

[Irishrailguy]

Funny old forum this. People moan about these short A-B modern routes DTG have been doing. So here we have a network going back to the days of steam and green diesels and they rip it to bits. Devs are damned if they do and damned if they don't so they just can't win. As for Deltics work I hope he carry's on as he has done some outstanding work.

But the thing is, the same people are still going to get the route. To be honest I wouldn't care whether users are ritualistically ripping it to bits once I'm making a nice profit off of something I was originally making for fun.

Despite what most people seem to think, I don't think that devs for DTG are that concerned or aware of the talk about their work on forums like UKTS. If you're working in a company like DTG there's not much reason to venture onto forums as there's up to 100 like-minded individuals working with you in person on a daily basis. It doesn't mean that this sort of rubbish is ok just because the targeted devs aren't aware of it though. I am aware that Derek has an account on here, but even with him being the most active DTG user on the forum his activity has been sparse recently to say the least.

Kev

[37114]

This is a forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinion whether you agree or disagree with their view. Why take it personally? There's far bigger issues in life than people's thoughts on a train sim. Just my opinion.

[smartie38]

It's not neccaserily pointing out flaws that's the problem if you ask me,it's the manner in which it is done.
Mark

Agreed. davep's comment . . .

"Just seen it was available and bought the double-pack straight away.
Just playing a scenario (Darlington to Durham) and have noticed an error straight away."

. . . sounded almost like he was LOOKING for a problem, and was proud of himself for finding it. "It's a competition folks to be the first to find a mistake, and hey, I'm the winner, and the first to post about it!"

I suspect it's not quite how he meant it. But perhaps people should think more, and re-read the post, before they submit it

Chris

Or perhaps people should re-read a post a couple of times (or more) before jumping to conclusions about what the poster meant to say as quite frankly I can't see anything wrong with that post you've highlighted.

If someone is going to take a post like that as them having a dig then I think they should stay away from forums as they're obviously very touchy indeed!

[davep]

Well. I didn't mean for my comment to cause so much fuss.

I'm NOT ripping the routes to bits.
I'm NOT knocking DTG - didn't even mention them!

I am an ex-railwayman and, in this instance, the advance speed board jumped out at me,
because, very simply, it should never have been there.

But what if (say) a WR lower quadrant signal had been put in and not noticed.
Should I say 'Wonderful route - it's perfect'?

I'm sorry if I worded it wrongly, and I always try to get my spelling, grammar and
punctuation correct as I know there are certain people on here who jump on errors
like that with glee.

And, just for the record, I certainly do not consider it a competition to be first
to point something out.

[gptech]

If someone is going to take a post like that as them having a dig then......

The opening line quoted in this thread is pretty innocuous, but reading the full post:

Just seen it was available and bought the double-pack straight away.

Just playing a scenario (Darlington to Durham) and have noticed an error straight away.

I see the advanced warning sign for a speed limit with the inverted arrow.
These WERE NOT in use-
a) at the time depicted in the route, and
b) they were only used on the Western Region when HST's were introduced,
and then they didn't last very long.

In the timescale depicted by this route, drivers were expected to know where the
speed limits were and there were NO advanced warning of them.

does leave the impression of it being a moan, not a critique/observation. The use of capitals for emphasis and the stern wording turns it from an observation/notification of a (minor) inaccuracy (built in intentionally to aid gameplay, as explained earlier by stuart666 and hertsbob) into a (seemingly) triumphant discovery of a huge *fault*

OK, the route has speed signs it really shouldn't have, the class 25 has the wrong brakes/pipes, I've no doubt there are many more inaccuracies and maybe even the odd 'real' fault in there (the softshadow under the class 37 in the fog perhaps?) but why can't these be listed in a less confrontational manner? It's a bloody game when all's said and done, either enjoy playing it, or if the *faults* in it are too much for you to bear visit your nearest boilermaker's and count their rivets.

[gptech]

But what if (say) a WR lower quadrant signal had been put in and not noticed.Should I say 'Wonderful route - it's perfect'?

But you would, having not noticed the error.

Simply adding a little preamble to the 'offending' post, such as;

Just playing a scenario (Darlington to Durham) and have noticed, what to an ex-railwayman, something that jumped out at me. The advanced warning signs for....

...then make the observations and reasoning, and finish off with your "NOT ripping the route to bits" bit.

Spelling, grammar and punctuation are important when trying to make a serious, or even semi-serious point or observation, but syntax plays a huge part too.

Anyway, can we move on and get back to proper discussions about TS rather than discussing errors in models or written English?