Steam Loco's - Autofireman

[wad53]

I've become somewhat addicted to the older steam era, and have been buying quite a few DLC's from DT and SSS.
One area that is causing me some grief is managing the power over the steeper hills eg. in Sommerset and Dorset. Often, my poor loco really struggles to make the climb, sometimes rolling back down the hill, sometimes I just keep missing the schedules. I assume it is because I'm not driving them properly, but being new'ish, I'm unclear on a few things.
I have been using the Autofireman, and mainly controlling the power / speed by balancing the Regulator and Reverser. This worked fine with the basic RSC steam loco's, but with the DT and SSS ones (more advanced physics I guess), I'm struggling.
Does this mean that I have to untick the Autofireman option and basically control everything myself to get the extra power / speed over hills? If so, any good references to help my learning curve?

Warren

[wad53]

Nobody???

Should I have asked this in the "Help for Beginners" forum?

Warren

EDIT: I did find this reference, but it refers to MSTS. Is it still applicable to RW?
http://www.uktrainsim.com/index2.php?fo ... teamfiring

[holzroller]

There are some threads on here dealing with specific locos. the auto fireman is not the best, but you can get by with him depending on the loco you are driving. The balance of cut-off/throttle is more critical for these engines, unlike the DTG ones they don't tend to be over-powered. It might be that you are expecting too much of these engines. You also definitely need to keep an eye on your steam usage and steam generated figures and take these into account with your throttle/cut-off.

[AndyUK]

There's also this thread stickied at the top of this forum section which may help: http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=126233

Andy L

[Trev123]

Most Steam locos are easy to drive. I drive with auto fireman off. What I do is I start with the regulator at about 60%, mind you this depends on the loco as there are variations and reverser at 75%. As the speed increases I decrease the reverser so that on the hud the pressure stays green. In the manual it usually tells you what steam pressure to maintain. Some steam locos are impossible to drive like JTs Manor. Also don't put to much coal on as you can make the fire die down a bit. Also don't let the fire mass get to low. Again usually the manual should tell you what fire mass to keep it at.

[wad53]

Thanks guys, looks like it's time for me to turn off Autofireman and start learning to do it myself.
It's mainly the DT locos (4MT, 4MTT, 3F) that I can't get up the hills, the others seem ok 'ish. The manuals with these are pretty brief.

[Trev123]

If you want realism you cannot go past JTs 4MT or Clan Class. You can drive them either in advanced mode or simple mode.

[Carinthia]

Thanks guys, looks like it's time for me to turn off Autofireman and start learning to do it myself.
It's mainly the DT locos (4MT, 4MTT, 3F) that I can't get up the hills, the others seem ok 'ish. The manuals with these are pretty brief.

Be assured these locomotives all work fine with or without autofireman turned on. I use them all.

Unfortunately, it is impossible to generalise on how to drive a steam locomotive - each is individual in the real world and likewise on the representations we are given (but maybe in different ways).

I am wondering if you are a bit optimistic of the power output of a Class 4 or 3 locomotive? These are only small locomotives for medium to lesser tasks. The art, in the real world, is to manage the coal in the firebox and the water in the boiler so as to waste as little steam as possible through the safety valve but to still maintain enough steam to do the work required. This seems much harder to achieve in the simulator than in real life. Autofireman does not know the state of the line ahead (gradients, length of journey etc) so it will always give you its best which is why you hear the engine blowing off frequently. If you choose to pump coal and water in as frequently as the autofireman does you will get just as good power output.

On the Somerset & Dorset, whether in autofireman mode or not, you should be prepared to plod gently up the steep bits rather than consume your power by going hammer and tongs as you will, literally, run out of puff! If you use the F4 controls the disc that shows red or green is a very useful point of reference (as Trev123 has mentioned) and you should try and keep it in the green at all times except the unavoidable moments when the locomotive is letting off steam.

If you still can't keep it in the green, it is your driving technique you need to scrutinise - make sure you juxtapose the regulator and cut-off levers suitaby, and also make sure you have the brake in the "lapped" position. I expect you are already doing that.

Hoping this helps,

John

[wad53]

Thanks John, really helpful.
I must admit I've been trying to build as much speed as possible before the hill gets too steep, and then giving as much oomph as I can to build momentum. I'll try to keep it more steady as she goes, and see how I go.
I'll still start to wean myself off the autofireman anyway.

Warren

[ttjph]

A couple of other threads with some useful discussion:

http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=132863
http://forums.uktrainsim.com/viewtopic. ... 1&t=133326

[Carinthia]

Thanks John, really helpful.
I must admit I've been trying to build as much speed as possible before the hill gets too steep, and then giving as much oomph as I can to build momentum. I'll try to keep it more steady as she goes, and see how I go.

That's not necessarily bad as long as you keep pressure up.

I just took myself for a trip along the S&D, using the Digital Traction 4MT 4-6-0 (not sure if that is one you were using?). They regularly worked the stopping passenger services.

For the entire trip, I kept the fire at 55% - 65% and the water 75% - 95%, and without taking the regulator beyond 90% I was able to keep up with schedule. Cut-off on this engine can be right back to 13% at high speed but that is irrelevant for the hill-climbing. The only exception to the above was on the steep gradients where I allowed the water to drop to around 60% with the summit in sight - this saved opening the injectors which use steam and would thus affect the climbing ability. I used the sanders on anything steeper than 1 in 100 to avoid slipping - fortunately in TS you have an endless supply of sand! Although they are steam-powered, in the simulation they do not seem to have much effect on steam usage.

Between Evercreech New to Shepton Mallet, the schedules for 1961 allow 10 minutes start to stop. I achieved this in 9 minutes, keeping the pressure in the green yet could never exceed 25 mph. This is a good example of how the timetables allowed you to plod your way up. Even so, I was constantly fine-tuning the cut-off and regulator as it isn't a case of finding the optimum control positions and letting it run.

You might want to give this a whirl yourself. I did it using the Digital Traction Maunsell stock, other stock may well give different results but the principle will stand.

Hope this helps,

John

[black8]

.....I did it using the Digital Traction Maunsell stock, other stock may well give different results but the principle will stand.

Good info John. I have been struggling too on the S&D through the years with many different steam loco types and making all the 'beginner' mistakes mentioned here. The S&D for me is the testing ground for steamdriving in TS. ....'If you can make it there (the S&D in this case) you can make it anywhere '.... Anyway, the best driving experience so far I had recently with JT's brilliant advanced BR Standard 4MT 2-6-0, topping Masbury Summit with a little under 40mph with 16 loaded minerals attached; manual fireman, advanced mode. Don't know how realistic the performance of this standard 4MT is in TS but I was very pleased.

Jos

[deltic009]

Although utilising the auto fireman, I particularly enjoyed a drive up Woodhead with the 8f (plus 2 banking) when I got the 8f enhancement pack from SSS.

Enjoyed it so much I made a video of it.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=21HB5jfQcX8

[Carinthia]

Anyway, the best driving experience so far I had recently with JT's brilliant advanced BR Standard 4MT 2-6-0, topping Masbury Summit with a little under 40mph with 16 loaded minerals attached; manual fireman, advanced mode. Don't know how realistic the performance of this standard 4MT is in TS but I was very pleased.

You might not be so pleased when the shedmaster carpets you, Jos - mineral trains were generally restricted to a maximum of 30 mph!

John

[black8]

..... mineral trains were generally restricted to a maximum of 30 mph! John

Yes I know now John because you won't believe this, I happen to have just downloaded your listing of 'Trains Classification, Headcodes and Speeds' about a half hour before I read this.

Anyway, I was so excited to have some decent speed for a change going over the hump at Masbury that I couldn't care less to 'face the shedmaster'

Jos