LMS experimental Diesel

numnutz · Post by **numnutz** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 11:04 am

I don't really need one of these, but I am curious as to what it is - how long did it run for and what colours was it painted.

But of course if any MSTS locomotive constructor wants to make one...

<IMG SRC="http://album.atomic-systems.com/showPic ... diesel.jpg">

jp4712 · Post by **jp4712** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 1:24 pm

A fascinating experiment...

The colour scheme was bright red (no, not crimson lake) up to the waist, then a black line, then cream from there to cantrail and a silver roof. There is at least one colour picture of it is a book somewhere, I think it may have been 'The big four in colour 1935-50'.

The transmission was a Lysholm-Smith torque converter, so in sound it would be surprisingly similar to a Class 150.

It worked Oxford-Cambridge from when it was built in about 1938 until the war when it was stored. Sadly there seemed to be no use for it afterwards so most was scrapped and one (or was it two?) coach had the roof lowered for use as a MSJ&A overhead maintenance vehicle.

duncharris · Post by **duncharris** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:21 pm

Perhaps this ones for Buffy - its a articulated DMU!

There's a thing about it in LMS coaches by Jenkinson & Essery (I've got the older version not split into 3 vols, but its all the same). This includes rought dimensions but any model would be based on photos a bit too. It was built in 1939 and did run arodun the Bedford area as mentioned. Two were planned but only one was built.

It was put into storage during the war because it was non-standard. After the war the centre vehicle was removed and the cab ends flattenned and it was transferred onto the Manchester South Junction & Altrincham section as an engineering thing.

Yes, the livery was a bit wierd for the LMS, though I'm not sure about the colour of the roof mentioned; it might have been grey.

If I think of anything else I'll tell you.

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:44 pm

Interesting livery. So much like the early BR coach scheme that I'd be surprised if the same people were not involved.

Stooopidperson · Post by **Stooopidperson** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 2:48 pm

From Ultimate Train (Peter Herring, DK)
During the 1930s, the greatest commitment to diesel traction in Britain was by London Midland & Scottish Railway. Its diesel fleet included this three-cat articulated train set. Built in 1938, it shuttled between Oxford and Cambridge at a speed of 104kph (65mph).

daveannjon · Post by **daveannjon** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:56 pm

There is a short LMS publicity film about it. I think it is on a video called LMS Diary of Events or similar. Nice machine, Stanier was keen on reducing carriage weights and I think this was one of the spin-offs.

Dave W

duncharris · Post by **duncharris** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 6:09 pm

daveannjon wrote:Stanier was keen on reducing carriage weights and I think this was one of the spin-offs.

Dave W

There's quite a bit in Jenkinson & Essery on LMS coaches about articulation and the problems that it caused - the four divisions (Midland, Western, Central and Scottish) wanting different lengths of sets with different combinations of first and third class. Oh and they weren't allowed through Chester, but there was no way of knowing whether a train had artics in! I think most of them ended up in Scotland.

TOMMO79 · Post by **TOMMO79** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 7:58 pm

They don't build em like they used too!

johndibben · Post by **johndibben** » Thu Mar 13, 2003 8:22 pm

I've seen it in the Oxford to Bletchley book .... must've been a shock given the usual LMS stuff.

Is that Oxford Rewley Road?

Someone else has got a bus in their avatar

duncharris · Post by **duncharris** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 5:43 pm

Stooopidperson wrote:From Ultimate Train (Peter Herring, DK)
During the 1930s, the greatest commitment to diesel traction in Britain was by London Midland & Scottish Railway. Its diesel fleet included this three-cat articulated train set. Built in 1938, it shuttled between Oxford and Cambridge at a speed of 104kph (65mph).

loud cough, need I say anything about (a) the simpleness of DK books and (b) here it's overstating just a tad.

Diesel traction at that time was in its infancy. Over the pond they were starting to use them, but over here there were a few class 08-style shunters and not a lot else. I think Germany pioneered the DMU at this time - you could brush up your German and go over to http://www.thetrain.de perhaps! But "the greatest commitment to diesel traction" was this handful of shunters and one arty-farty styled articulated-DMU set which turned out to work for a matter of months! Ivatt's twins didn't appear until after the war, btw.

bravedan · Post by **bravedan** » Sat Mar 15, 2003 6:43 pm

Re: "Someone else has got a bus in their avatar".......Nah, that's not a bus.....far too modern.........

Re: the diesel set..................I thought pics were thin on the ground.......then I picked up two secondhand books today........and both have pics of it......................

buffy500 · Post by **buffy500** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 10:27 am

The fact its articulated should not prove to be a problem for anyone..

All you do is build coaches with only 1 bogie ( or possibly no bogies), and have the cars behind or infront have bogies which 'stick out', ie the pivot point of the bogie is actually under the centre of the corridor connection between the two vehicles.

I think when I did the APT, the Driving coaches has 2 bogies, the rear one sticking out 'too far' at the back, then all the next coaches just has a rear bogie, and a big space for the other half of the one from the car in front to go into, I can do some images if anyone needs to see how it worked.

But as for doing this thing, erm, no thanks, not my style at all.

duncharris · Post by **duncharris** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:35 pm

buffy500 wrote:But as for doing this thing, erm, no thanks, not my style at all.

Aw go on! Just look at that shape (and I can give you dimensions, erm, next week), it was a pioneer, though it is debatable whether any decent DMU-related information was obtained before it was put in store! please?

buffy500 · Post by **buffy500** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 2:42 pm

If I added to my list, it would be something like next December...

saddletank · Post by **saddletank** » Mon Mar 17, 2003 4:38 pm

duncharris wrote:Diesel traction at that time was in its infancy. [snip] But "the greatest commitment to diesel traction" was this handful of shunters and one arty-farty styled articulated-DMU set which turned out to work for a matter of months! Ivatt's twins didn't appear until after the war, btw.

And the GWR railcars? A complete success, and in service 15 years before their 08 style shunters were.