Open rails support for Xtracks and UKFinescale

[tmarston]

Does open rails support the add-on Xtracks and UKFinescale. I am getting tracks error messages such as:

Warning: Track node pin has invalid link 0 in C:\Program files (x86)\Microsoft Games\Train Simulator\ Routes\GWR\GWR.tdb:line 1987.

I know that the route has been constructed using UKFinescale.

Tony

[zlindku]

Yes it does, the problem is likley to be that the file parsing in OR is ___MUCH___ more picky than MSTS was and MSTS's editor and tools can put some odd things in files. An example is sometime the editor will put "_SKIP" instead of just "SKIP" (I believe "SKIP" is the same as "Comment") and OR does not like this.

You have to have a look at the file around the error and see what is going on, make ure thee is no extra commas etc. You may like to cross check the entry to the the track item files to see if it makes sense. Note I have not done this much with the world and tdb files I have though done this quite a bit of this sort of thing with the signalling config.

OR is ____VERY____ good at picking up errors like this in files, and one can improve a route by fixing these errors.

Lindsay

[slipperman12]

Hi Lindsay,
In this particular route, there are 5 entries which read : TrPin ( 0 0 ). Could these be the cause of the problem?

Cheers,
Ged

[tmarston]

Yes this is one of the problems.

The file Dorset.tdb results with :
TrackNode ( 1789
TrJunctionNode ( 0 38841 1 )
UiD ( -6091 14898 421 0 -6091 14898 413.783 14.901 688.204 0 -2.98619 0 )
TrPins ( 1 2
TrPin ( 0 0 )
TrPin ( 2302 0 )
TrPin ( 1967 1 )

where TrPin (0 0 ) is at the reported line number.

Cheers

Tony

[slipperman12]

Hi Tony,
I was hoping that Lindsay would supply an answer. It may be that those lines can be deleted, but I'm reluctant to do so without further information!

On the other hand, they are only warnings and don't, in themselves, stop Open Rails from working.

Cheers,
Ged

[zlindku]

Yes this is one of the problems.

The file Dorset.tdb results with :
TrackNode ( 1789
TrJunctionNode ( 0 38841 1 )
UiD ( -6091 14898 421 0 -6091 14898 413.783 14.901 688.204 0 -2.98619 0 )
TrPins ( 1 2
TrPin ( 0 0 )
TrPin ( 2302 0 )
TrPin ( 1967 1 )

where TrPin (0 0 ) is at the reported line number.

Cheers

Tony

Now Iam no expert on the Track Data BAse and Ged you have no given enough inormation but I will at least have a go t expalining the above information.

The line name "TrJunctionNode" indicates the section is a part of the track where two sepearate tracks intereact
The "TrPins (1 2" Indicate the section has one input and two outputs, ie its a set of points.
The "TrPin" indicates what ids ("TrackNode" number) each node of this section is connected to. So in the above case there should be 3 "TrPin" statements.
The TrPin (0 0) probably should have a number other than 0 for the first number, as I understand it "TRPin ( 0 0 ) should only occur once if at all (if at all( in a TDB as there will be only one "TrackNode ( 0"

In the above example one may be able to look for the section this TrackNode is connected to. I assume some where in the TDB file there __SHOULD__ be (as I said Iam nor an expert here) a TrPin line saying "TrPin (1789 ?) (the question mark could be 0 or 1) this will show where this node is connected to. Then the "TrPin ( 0 0 ) line could be altered to say TrPin ( 18 1 ) if the tracknode found was 18.

As usual _______BACKUP ________ everything before any changesa are made.

There is a doc soemwhere on the net called "TDB primer" by SDTrains this is where the above info was gleaned from. I have as yet not done much route building so I have not tangled with the Track Data Base much. I Have thoough spent plenty of time in the World files and sigcfg.dat sorting out object and signalling issues.

Lindsay

[dforrest]

Lindsay, can you explain this which is the format of saveral entries in the same file?

Code: Select all

		TrackNode ( 2269
			TrEndNode ( 0 )
			UiD ( -6081 14927 130 0 -6081 14927 238.035 13.7569 563.003 0 -2.18281 0 )
			TrPins ( 1 0
				TrPin ( 0 0 )
			)

[slipperman12]

Hi Lindsay,
Thank you for that explanation
I will track down the TDB tutorial to learn some more!
Until then, in the example shown, there are two TrackNodes with one of their TrPin entries as 1789 :

TrackNode ( 1967
TrVectorNode (
TrVectorSections ( 1 ...... )
)
TrPins ( 1 1
TrPin ( 1789 0 )
TrPin ( 2260 1 )
)
)

TrackNode ( 2302
TrVectorNode (
TrVectorSections ( 3 ..... )
)
TrPins ( 1 1
TrPin ( 2461 1 )
TrPin ( 1789 0 )
)
)

As these only have one input and one output, I take it they are 'plain' tracks, but the TrackNode numbers are already entered in the other TrPin lines for TrackNode 1789!

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT : For information, the TDB primer is available as UKTS file ID 22427

[zlindku]

Lindsay, can you explain this which is the format of saveral entries in the same file?

Code: Select all

		TrackNode ( 2269
			TrEndNode ( 0 )
			UiD ( -6081 14927 130 0 -6081 14927 238.035 13.7569 563.003 0 -2.18281 0 )
			TrPins ( 1 0
				TrPin ( 0 0 )
			)

Its the end of a track so it only has a single connection, as the TrPin is ( 0 0 ) it would have to be connected to the first section laid as its connected to TrackNode 0.

A I said I am no expert on this, it appears wierd things can happen in the TDB that is why docs such as the TDB Primer exist.

[zlindku]

Hi Lindsay,
Thank you for that explanation
I will track down the TDB tutorial to learn some more!
Until then, in the example shown, there are two TrackNodes with one of their TrPin entries as 1789 :

TrackNode ( 1967
TrVectorNode (
TrVectorSections ( 1 ...... )
)
TrPins ( 1 1
TrPin ( 1789 0 )
TrPin ( 2260 1 )
)
)

TrackNode ( 2302
TrVectorNode (
TrVectorSections ( 3 ..... )
)
TrPins ( 1 1
TrPin ( 2461 1 )
TrPin ( 1789 0 )
)
)

As these only have one input and one output, I take it they are 'plain' tracks, but the TrackNode numbers are already entered in the other TrPin lines for TrackNode 1789!

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT : For information, the TDB primer is available as UKTS file ID 22427

I assume its a single line track going something like TrackNode 2260, 1967, 1789, 2302, 2461 A check on the positions would show if they are adjacent items.

I have no idea on how the route editor allocates TrackNode Numbers a short examiniation of a local route showed no real comsistancy, I would have though it would be consective numbers as one laid the track. One will have to do a bit of route building top try and work io out

Lindsay.

[tmarston]

Hi,

I have done a little research as well, the document by Stephen Dearne implies that the reason for the (0 0 ) is as a result that the connecting track is not mating correctly. I am trying to understand the Uid data at the moment as when the coordinates are typed into RE no track is displayed. Further research is required. To help there is also trackviewer.exe. This is meant to display the route as a track map. Incorrectly connected track should show up with an end point ( a short tangient through the track).

Cheers

Tony

[tmarston]

I hve just been reading the support pdf from the development team. Is there no one looking at the forum these days. James Prter of The Dorset coast Tech. Support team states at the end of the document for problems to be posted onto this forum. Are our questions falling onto deaf ears?

Regards

Anthony

[slipperman12]

Hi Anthony,
The author of Dorset Coast wrote it with and for MSTS. In that simulator, it works correctly. The problem you have is that you're trying to run it in Open Rails; I don't believe it's the responsibility of the original author to make it work without errors / warnings using OR. OR only gives warnings for these, what it sees as, track node inconsistencies, so doesn't stop it working.

There have been more than 450 viewings of this thread, but as the subject is very specialised, there are very few members who would be able to give you a confident answer.

Cheers,
Ged

[tmarston]

Thanks Ged,

To be honest I do not agree if you look at the Uid for the error in question in RE there are 2 ghost sets of points in the same place as the actual set of points. If one tries to make routes using these tracks in AE then the problems show up. When you pay UKTrainSim for the route, surely you have a right to a route without errors.

What I am trying to find out is how to remove these errors as MSTS does not run heavy graphics reliably, whereas OR does. You read articles about this, but there is no defined article explaining how the different tables interact. At least there should be a comment from the developers in response to the question. Perhaps the thread does not have the correct title.

One other thing about this, there is the ability in RE to regenerate the route. The method is to delete the database files and the start RE in advanced mode. However the route crashes RE which has to be closed.

You say that the route works in MSTS, surely for this to be true then it should work in every aspect of the program, which clearly it does not.

Thanks

Anthony

[slipperman12]

Hi Anthony,

Perhaps the thread does not have the correct title

Yes, you're right there! Also, if you want a reply regarding MSTS, I suggest you post into the General or Route Building Forums under MSTS1. There have been several threads regarding the Dorset Coast route over the years, but it may be better for you to create a new one. I don't recall ever seeing a post covering this particular problem, but it doesn't mean there hasn't been one; doing a search for Dorset Coast may throw something up!

When you pay UKTrainSim for the route, surely you have a right to a route without errors.

To be pedantic, you DON'T pay UKTrainsim for a route - you pay for a CD/DVD and postage, plus a month's Premium membership. UKTS ensures the route, and any supplied stock and activities, work as expected AS A SIM! I would hardly expect them to test that the Route and Activity Editors work correctly throughout.

Finally, as I pointed out previously, Open Rails isn't prevented from running by these "problems".

Cheers,
Ged

EDIT : Out of interest, I've just started up my Dorset Coast v6 in the Route Editor, without problem. If you get the crash at a certain location, please post its co-ordinates and I'll check it out. If it happens as soon as you start RE, don't forget that it is a large route and needs a decent PC to load and run it properly.