Disappointed with TS2013 & disillusioned with UK TrainSim

[MGD11]

Apologies for entering the debate so late...

I think (and a larger part of the issue is) the fact that a lot of routes only come with a small selection of rolling stock, which would probably cover about an hour's worth of timetabling in terms of classes but not a day's worth.

Take the Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway (Bath - Temecombe) route, for example; only a Black 5 and a 7F are provided - no Standards, tank locos or anything amounting to a "proper" variety - and it's the same story for pretty much every route provided as DLC - a couple of "basics", but any variety to actually resemble real life requires additional outlay.

It's a shame - DLC used to add extra stuff to a game, not complete it.

[briyeo1950]

How much would you expect to have to pay for the S&D route and 6 locos with assorted rolling stock, and how long would you be prepared to wait for it to be all gathered together for release?
It takes time to gather a good amount of DLC that is for sure. But use the sales when they come, and in a year or so you will have a good stable of loco's and rolling stock.
You won't have everything, and will still have to miss out on some routes and scenarios, especially after a sudden relative large amount of DLC is released, as we have just had with UK steam locos.

[Irishrailguy]

It's great for once to see everyone having an honest discussion over this particular topic without the thread eventually being locked.

I feel, when I see the lack of freeware for this particular sim, that we need to look at why (in most cases) dlc becomes payware. I can't deny that a lot more effort needs to go into routes and rolling stock with TS2013 than was necessary for MSTS. Community assets could be developed at the highest standard possible without the need for a 3d cab or detailed external models. In the case of MSTS I'd imagine so many assets could be made for free because most people with some basic modelling skills could produce something to a good standard. With TS2013 it's a mammoth job to get even a single high standard loco out to the users, asset development has become a niche service and it's just not viable for someone to sacrifice so much time in developing something for it to not reap any reward.

Now please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that MSTS dlc is worthless (I myself bought most of MT's excellent routes and stock packs back in the day), but I would completely understand why a developer would choose to go payware, it's just the way the development community has gone these days on account of the demands placed by the user community.

I've probably caused myself more problems than I set out to resolve by saying that, but I'll be remaining partial to my opinions

Kev

[Oldpufferspotter]

Over the years of Railworks becoming TrainSimulator2012, there was a constant agitation on these forums for the 'bar' to be raised, i.e. for more detailed models, more accurate physics, and the driving of model locos etc to accurately simulate the driving techniques of real life locos.
Long gone are the days when we enthused over the freeware LMS Class 2 2-6-0 and 2-6-2T locos that were aliased to the default 7F 2-8-0 or the Black 5. I remember being overjoyed at the Caledonian 4-4-0s, the Midland 4-2-2 and 4-4-0, and the LBSC 2-2-2 locos, all similarly aliased. Many users would now regard them as simply not good enough I'm afraid! (I am still using them, by the way!).
Then there are the latest EULAs introduced with TS2013. These have effectively discouraged freeware from being produced (apart from scenarios). It is not so long ago that the non-premium queue for downloads from this site was a very lengthy one and one could wait hours for a download to reach the front of the queue. Have a look at the number in the queue now!
Things have changed I'm afraid, and RS.com have taken a very tight control over their game/simulator. The golden days of Rail Simulator and Railworks1 when we all looked forward to a golden future have faded away...
regards Ted.

[johnrossetti]

RS.com have taken a very tight control - Your right Ted and if that is to reduce support calls I don't blame them, but TS is , for me, all there is, and if that's the way RS want it, it's their call, I do think it's the best option at the moment until MSTS2 is released, which may be soon/never. they are keeping very quiet at the mo. I hang in with TS its a heavy learning curve and as for building locos or stock or even buildings at the moment its too much for me to take in, but it gives me hours of fun. I do think RS could do with some "user groups" of their own NOT facebook rubbish. and communicate with their public more it can do no harm and much good. I have a saying "give them what they want" I don't believe the customer is always right, but it's a good starting point.

[Acorncomputer]

but it gives me hours of fun

Me too (as they say)

-

[Trev123]

Over the years of Railworks becoming TrainSimulator2012, there was a constant agitation on these forums for the 'bar' to be raised, i.e. for more detailed models, more accurate physics, and the driving of model locos etc to accurately simulate the driving techniques of real life locos.
Long gone are the days when we enthused over the freeware LMS Class 2 2-6-0 and 2-6-2T locos that were aliased to the default 7F 2-8-0 or the Black 5. I remember being overjoyed at the Caledonian 4-4-0s, the Midland 4-2-2 and 4-4-0, and the LBSC 2-2-2 locos, all similarly aliased. Many users would now regard them as simply not good enough I'm afraid! (I am still using them, by the way!).
Then there are the latest EULAs introduced with TS2013. These have effectively discouraged freeware from being produced (apart from scenarios). It is not so long ago that the non-premium queue for downloads from this site was a very lengthy one and one could wait hours for a download to reach the front of the queue. Have a look at the number in the queue now!
Things have changed I'm afraid, and RS.com have taken a very tight control over their game/simulator. The golden days of Rail Simulator and Railworks1 when we all looked forward to a golden future have faded away...
regards Ted.

As you can see from the front page of UKTS there are not many TS2013 scenarios routes being uploaded any more. I have noticed the gradual down turn since Steam Workshop started where you don't have any download restrictions.

[Kernow2]

As you can see from the front page of UKTS there are not many TS2013 scenarios routes being uploaded any more. I have noticed the gradual down turn since Steam Workshop started where you don't have any download restrictions.

I'm sure there are a good many reasons why less freeware is being created but, speaking as one who is taking a break from creating TS2013 scenarios, it's getting to be hard work to produce something engaging and interesting, using stock assets that others might have or can get easily, that will actually work on other users game installations. The editor is 'challenging' to say the least, correctly identifying a particular freeware re-skin or upgrade of a particular asset is getting very difficult, the game seems to be more fragile as it grows in size and complexity.
Personally, I don't have the will, patience or enthusiasm to play the game - for the moment..

Kernow2

[749006]

As you can see from the front page of UKTS there are not many TS2013 scenarios routes being uploaded any more. I have noticed the gradual down turn since Steam Workshop started where you don't have any download restrictions.

However I believe you can only upload scenarios that use RSC stock.
I don't think you could upload a scenario with a Just Trains loco.

And UKTS has lots of scenarios for lots of different routes using a wide variety of stock providers.
Something you don't see in the workshop

Peter

[gptech]

As you can see from the front page of UKTS there are not many TS2013 scenarios routes being uploaded any more

As June is MSTS month there's a plethora of MSTS stuff hitting the font page, so that view is a little skewed.

[Trev123]

As I'm not a MSTS person anymore I wouldn't know.

[gptech]

As I'm not a MSTS person anymore I wouldn't know.

neither am I, but it was splashed all over the home page at the start of the month.

[rosgar]

As you can see from the front page of UKTS there are not many TS2013 scenarios routes being uploaded any more. I have noticed the gradual down turn since Steam Workshop started where you don't have any download restrictions.

However I believe you can only upload scenarios that use RSC stock.
I don't think you could upload a scenario with a Just Trains loco.

And UKTS has lots of scenarios for lots of different routes using a wide variety of stock providers.
Something you don't see in the workshop

Peter

This is probably the main reason why we have always supported UKTS, and totally ignored Workshop. Class 37s and 47s etc are very nice in small doses, but at the end of the day variety is king. So there will always be a gap between what Workshop offers and what people really want. At UKTS they will find it most of the time. For those first starting up the Workshop is a good beginning, but generally as the amount of stock they own increases, they will eventually find here in search of more elaborate choices, with increasing use of 3rd party assets as well.
Actually we've noticed more than a few new authors popping up, as well as a few past maestro's re-appearing as well. So maybe the turn down is coming to an end, and in fact starting to recover.

[SuperTux]

If you are patient and wait for a sale you can get some bargains. For £12.49 I have recently aquired the Faversham route...r

The first rule of Steam is: you do not buy anything at full price.

I'm late in this conversation too, but this is very true. Wait for the 50% sales, although personally I will pay full price if I think the item is ground breaking, such as the Consolidation and Jinty, or if I think I will get many hours out of it immediately upon purchase.

Also Steam Workshop as I think has been mentioned is limited to what available as DLC on Steam, which leaves Uktrainsim open for the deeper and more involved scenario, and of course routes .