Disappointed with TS2013 & disillusioned with UK TrainSim

[Kernow2]

Whilst this is expensive business to sustain, for a modest outlay (by today's standards) we as users can enjoy the thrill of creating and running our very own Railways from the comfort of our own homes. Even better when you wait for a sale on Steam and obtain some DLC for next to nothing.

Have fun, you only live once

Perfectly put Sir!

Kernow2

[riggs386]

Well thanks again - it seems I did stir up a hornet's nest here. Points taken regarding my implying that there may have been a link between commercial interests and uploaders: obviously that would be very difficult to establish in any case and I accept that it may well have been hurtful to someone who has spent hours developing something only to be accused (albeit indirectly) of being in it for the money. For that, I apologise sincerely - an ill-considered slur aimed at no one in particular and a case of my adding two and two together and making five. Understandable perhaps though, when viewing the situation from the other side for a moment - after spending nearly two hours checking out over half the downloads available and finding not one that would work without paying out for more software only 24 hours after purchasing the initial game, I doubt I'd be the only one to jump to that conclusion. A pity that there doesn't seem (in the main downloads library at any rate) an activity amongst the 197 included there that would work with the TS2013 included route and stock. (Or if there is - I didn't find it - and if there is apologies in advance to whoever uploaded it!) I stick by my comments regarding not gifting a subscription to UKTS to my granddaughter though - I envisage disappointment and frustration as being the only result.

[1S811985]

I can understand where the OP is coming from as, to the untutored newcomer, the present state of RW must seem like an unholy mess.

I'm delighted that Jim (Nobkins) was able to post an early reply setting out clearly and concisely what is required by the newcomer if they want to piece together the original "core" assets. Possession of which, when accompanied by the free to download UKTS Freeware packs , opens up an acceptably broad range of freeware content.

When putting together the dozen or so scenarios that I've uploaded to UKTS I always tried to limit, so far as was practicable, the list of both the payware and freeware requirements required. Why? Well, quite simply because I was always put off by the laundry list that seemed to accompany many otherwise interesting downloads. That said, I'm also always going to be tempted to use what I've paid for so this particular circle might take some squaring.

If you ask me, the best thing that could come out of this thread from a community standpoint would be a renewed interest in the UKTS freeware packs and a determination to try and repeat the success of the WCML-N freeware bundle.

1S81

[pilot37]

Alternatively: 95 percent of my Trainsim use is running my own scenarios. The scenario editor is simple to use, difficult to master. I had great success with the freeware Wales & Borders route. I first run one train on a trip with just some static stuff parked around the route. Then For my next scenario I let the AI run that train and add another (sometimes simplifying the AI task to exclude coupling / decoupling). Sometimes the scenario will go wrong but this is part of the fun, especially when you are on your 7th Scenario and it all works.

The advantage is that other trains you pass have more meaning because one knows their purpose; you get to make just what you want with just what you own; you can start simple, just overload a loco pulling 12 coaches on an a to b or something.

Only disadvantage is that one knows exactly the what is due to happen.

I rarely use other's scenarios because usually they fail due to missing things, even though I have loads of DLC.

[gptech]

Having had MSTS for years, and by and large been happy with it, despite it's many idiosyncrasies...etc, etc

A very interesting, and possibly educational viewpoint---one I will admit to completely disagreeing with and normally I'd be quick to post a suitablly pithy and snotty answer to it, but it does highlight how things have changed. Normally (perhaps due to how RSC have targeted the game to new users; buy the game, buy this add-on, buy another add-on....) folk find UKTS when they have a reasonable amount of the assets required. In this case we have a seasoned UKTS user short circuiting that route, one accustomed to the 'freeware' culture that is MSTS because it is largely unsupported by the publisher and left to the user base to *sort out* so it's really no surprise to view such a 'culture shock'.

There is a wealth of totally free stuff available, it may take some finding but it really is there, so UKTS as a free repository of knowledge and assets etc is very much 'alive' and as outlined by others is something shaped by the users---those of us who have grown *used* to how TS2013 works accept this so perhaps the statement:

So - a bit of advice to those MSTS users who, noticing that the downloads are becoming rarer and rarer, are considering switching to TS2013: Keep your wallet in your pocket: it's fairly good, but certainly not so good as to be worth spending far, far more than the cost of the game itself, on add-ons.

Should really be read as:

"So - a bit of advice to those MSTS users who are considering switching to TS2013: realise this game isn't MSTS, and has a completely differnt path to achieving RailSim Nirvana---don't judge it by what you may have come to accept is how it is in the MSTS world but open your eyes and be prepared to think before purchasing/downloading. Don't forget that the UKTS members who have been using this game for a while will be able to, and happy to, aid you in your quest to get the most out of it"

In other words, despite the quirks, annoyances and grievancies around the game; the guys (and lets not forget the gals----half of one of the best teams for producing scenarios we can all enjoy is a lady --Rose from rosgar) in here will do their utmost to ensure you'll enjoy it!!

[larch]

There are a number of payware suppliers, but I have to say that in my experience their products are typically (if not always) of higher quality and more robust; pay your money (or not) and take your choice. If you don't want to use payware then RW tools is an easy way to replace locos and stock in any scenario with default nearest matches or your choice of the large number of freeware products. It does take a little bit of homework and practice to learn how to use RW tools, but that's part of the fun. Once you've cracked it RW tools is a priceless gem.

Don't give up on TS 2013! It's in a different league to MSTS (as it should be; it's a generation or two younger). My fun these days is almost solely derived from developing my route (an endless task!), and that is MUCH better fun than in MSTS, with loads of freeware supplies (though i have to say some payware routes do help a lot with asset choice).

I do think this forum is getting a bit tense these days! It's only a hobby, and most hobbies do come with the odd bill.

Have fun!

[SquidvT]

I get where the OP is comming from. Initially, when considering many 3rd party scenarios the payware requirement can be huge. When I first started out I too felt disenchanted by this. I had already paid for the game and thought that the added bonus of being able to download extra scenarios from this site would be added value. I quickly learnt that that it wasnt quite that simple. Firstly I had to pay a subscription to get the files, secondly once I had them I saw that I required a shed load (no pun) of stock to run them.

Since then I discovered RWtools. Probably the best money ive spent on this "hobby". It allows you to easily and quickly substitute stock in a scenario with that which you own (and a host of other things). Also over time my collection has naturally grown so now I tend to have the required stock anyway. But still there are often times where I use it to tailor a scenario to what I have.

That said for the newcomer probably the best place to get free 3rd party activities with a low or modest requirement of DLC isnt here, its Steam Workshop. There are a host of free scenarios on there, they install automatically and you can search by the DLC you own. Even if you dont have the required stuff its easy to swap the one or two things you dont have out (literally takes minutes and you could easily do it for your granddaughter if she is unable).

Last point though is that the Community here is incredibly generous. Many people donate stuff thats often better than DLC, for free. The are also always willing to offer help and advice, and the value of that cannot be underestimated.

On a slighty different note, RSC's latest idea of repackaging DLC rather than updating it will make this problem worse for new users. Putting aside exsiting scenarios, there will now be an additional thing to check for any new content. That is, which version of the stock do you own? Is it the original or the new? Once again, thank god for RWtools.

[malcolmfhill]

There was a debate a few years ago that commercial TV companies only screened certain programmes because of the money they made from the advertising. So what if they do. Personally, I just love this game and have spent money on some of the DLCs on offer as well as gradually upgrading my PC to get the best out of the game.But hey - it's a hobby - and if a TV programme doesn't interest me, I don't watch it! Simples.
Whilst I'm a member of this message board, I will ALWAYS encourage those who use their time and varied skills to produce both payware and freeware. Long may this simulator game continue (and if you're reading this, RSC, can we have the game upgraded to 64-bit please).
Totally agree with Acorncomputer and Kernow2 above.

[Carinthia]

Quick Drive was introduced to TS2013 to bridge the gap between using the default scenarios and creating your own and its right at the top of the main menu so I fail to see the OP's issue. This should give his daughter seemingly endless permutations without worrying about buying add-ons.

John

[andynwt]

The Steam Workshop also mitigates a number of the problems with scenarios on this site requiring payware. There are many many scenarios on there, some require a few extra bits, some require just the defaults.

You can get hours out of the game as it stands out of the box, it's only the truly obsessives who need to spend a few hundred quid on getting every train they would like to see

[thetrainfan]

What a disappointment: as for activities, virtually all require some add-ons, costing quite a bit. I couldn't find any at all for the default routes that didn't require add-ons costing up to £30 or so. Some seemed to require much more than that.

There are plenty in my opinion, if there is any stock you want replacing just buy (or if you don't want to spend money, use the 21-day free trial) to swap out payware stock for default stuff.

Upon further investigation it soon became apparent to me that the UK TrainSim platform - which until now has always seemed to me to encourage file sharing freely (I've uploaded a few models for MSTS in the past, as well as downloading many) now seems to have been taken over by commercial interests. Of the 198 activity downloads available, virtually none were of any use without some payware, the majority, it seems to me, are being contributed by authors (only seven - contributing nearly two hundred between them?) who I believe are commercially linked to the companies offering the add-ons, with the very thinly disguised motive of promoting the sale of the goods. Only one author openly advertised their activity as a commercial interest.

Oh yes, sorry - I forgot I had links (along with all other developers - I can assure you there are more than 7!!!) with developers such as Just Trains, RSC, Armstrong Powerhouse etc. I will change all of my scenario descriptions and demand my commission.

There are plenty of freeware scenarios on the Steam Workshop as well as DPSimulation's Freeware Only scenarios available on their website http://www.dpsimulation.org.uk/scenariosfso.html which do not require any subscription.
All scenario creators make their work because they want to publish and contribute something to the community; they don't do it because they are told to by payware developing companies.
We can make what we want, requiring what we want.


Sean

[maxtedrw]

I would have said that a large part of the difference is in the time it takes. In MSTS the graphical and look of the railway was fabulous in it's day but now looks... well...a little old. Content development in MSTS could be undertaken fairly quickly as the expectations and what was achievable was of a less detailed and nuanced standard.

In railworks and especially in 2013, the potential both graphically and detail wise is huge. As someone who has developed for both it simply takes far far longer, and is hugely more complex to produce even reasonable content for railworks. This is a good thing. The standard of the latest freeware and payware releases in graphical and detail terms is actually mind blowing considering this is all computer software.

This is to my mind why there is less freeware available than for MSTS. It simply takes longer and is harder to do.

[pjt1974]

I suppose I'm one of those activity creators and no offence was taken so no need for the apology, I can actually see how that assumption could be made.

TS2013 is a bit of a mess for new users not going through the official Workshop channels for activity addons. Many of those who create activities, like myself, have been using TS2013 since it was Rail Simulator and have gotten used to what was the default stock that was supplied with the sim.

Unfortunately it is the way it is now. UKTrainsim didn't create the problem, the decision by the creators of TS2013 , Rail Simulator.com, to take the sim back to it's bare bones has caused all the confusion, not only for new users like yourself and your granddaughter but for a few of us seasoned users aswell.

When making a scenario, or building a route, there is simply no basic set of rules you can follow now that will please all the people all of the time.

[riggs386]

Well - what can I say? ... I posted the original blast after trying, for two hours to find and download something - anything, in fact - that could be added to TS2013 without requiring additional payware.

Remember I said that I bought this for a child... my granddaughter. I was checking out UKTS downloads in advance, for her sake. I'm glad I didn't bother with the six month subscription - seeing the scenarios to download would have simply put pressure on my daughter to stump up more cash for add-ons, to run them.

I could hardly be blamed, surely, for being confused with the whole issue - whilst MSTS still had a strong following, and there was really no other option, Microsoft (or was it Kuju?) declared that they would be bringing out MSTS 2. Then it died the death. Then it briefly resurrected. Then it was Railworks, one, two, three, Railworks 2012 - and now Railworks 2013 (which seems to be Railworks 2012 with some of the content removed, functions not working/altered) all bundled with a manual - in PDF form, inaccessible from the main menu - some of which was written in 2010, and describes functions that don't work anymore - or at least work differently to the way described ('T' key for creating terrain now replaced by icon on the terrain tool - just one example of several.) Whilst all this was going on, I simply decided to stick with MSTS: every time I considered switching, a new version of whatever it was at the time, was coming out, and they weren't always compatible with the older versions. The very name 'Train Simulator 2013' carries with it built-in obsolescence, obviously.

Yes - a right mess indeed.

To be honest, I'm undecided now, just which way to go, in the trainsim world. I've had time to spend driving the sim, and I have to be fair to it's creators (Is it Railsim.com - I'm not even sure of that?) it is quite realistic - especially the welcome, working AWS. But my interest is in route building, rather than driving, and content seems very restricted in certain areas (can't even begin to imagine constructing complex junction semaphore signals, or even if it's possible) in TS2013, track laying seems very odd - and this at least, is nowhere near as accurate looking as UKFS, in MSTS.

I well remember the frustration of getting to grips with Train Sim Model(l)er, a few years ago, after years using Autocad. TS 2013 models it seems, have to be constructed with (is it Google Sketchup?) And surely if so, that's just for static objects such as buildings.

So much has changed, in just one week. How I wish, when I'd asked my daughter what my granddaughter wanted for her birthday, she'd simply said "Dad - just give her the money..."

Once again, apologies to those I offended, and thanks to all who have offered useful advice.

[Acorncomputer]

Once again, apologies to those I offended, and thanks to all who have offered useful advice.

I don't think you have offended anyone

UKTS members can be a bit passionate but always welcome those interested in this multi faceted and multi skilled hobby. The gauntlet is thrown, roll up your sleeves and recruit the services of your grand-daughter to get a project going and to hell with the cost

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